Your Lions Squad Following the 6N

[Draggs]

I am waiting for Leinster fans to rip themselves apart trying to decide between Sexton and Madigan.
Forget about Phillips, Care, Youngs... We've got Isaac Boss.

 

[big ginger 8]

I am waiting for Leinster fans to rip themselves apart trying to decide between Sexton and Madigan.
Forget about Phillips, Care, Youngs... We've got Isaac Boss.

Don't have to worry about that 10-12 combo set.

Boss was motm yesterday...

Really did an Irish person kill your family or something?

 

[Draggs]

Don't have to worry about that 10-12 combo set.

Boss was motm yesterday...

Really did an Irish person kill your family or something?

No, it just is guaranteed a textbook response.
I'll stop, honestly.

For those considering Madigan for the Lions, I wouldn't be too sure. Here is a Sexton highlight video:


For further reference, here is a sextant how-to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9gUs3cLgx0
I also have a documentary about Essex and preparations for the 2012 Olympics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOyo3X1-6p4

 

[big ginger 8]

No, it just is guaranteed a textbook response.
I'll stop, honestly.

For those considering Madigan for the Lions, I wouldn't be too sure. Here is a Sexton highlight video:


For further reference, here is a sextant how-to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9gUs3cLgx0
I also have a documentary about Essex and preparations for the 2012 Olympics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOyo3X1-6p4

Wow that confirms it then. Sorry about that hope he was locked up.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Has Gatland mentioned how many scrumhalves he's taking?
Three went to SA, so if he's taking three this time then I presume it's Phillips, Youngs and Murray. Maybe Laidlaw as the utility back covering 9/10?

I do think he's on about Hook, though. I don't particularly rate him (well, that's not true, I don't rate him as much as the Welsh do ) but he can do a job covering various spots from the bench (however my 22/23 would be Farrell and Hogg).

 

[Draggs]

Yes, I am deadly serious.

 

[psychic duck]

I also wouldn't start him at 15, but you can't cover every position from the bench, and thus someone with international experience at 4 positions could come in extremely useful if a couple of injuries are picked up during a match. I'd prefer to see Hook coming on at fullback than shoehorning someone like Sexton or Farrell there if a couple of outside backs are forced off during the game. Not saying that Sexton or Farrell couldn't do the job, but they are untested. Hook, even if he hasn't been a world beater at 15, has been more than adequate, and would do the job if required.

You can cover every position from the bench actually very easily. A bench of Laidlaw, Tuilagi and Hogg covers every position. So would Care, Farrell and Kearney or Phillips, Farrell and Roberts even. Then add to the fact that you would expect at least one or two of the starting backline could change position if needed and it isn't that much of an issue. Having said that though, I would have much rather Hook had been on the bench in hindsight than ROG in 2009!

You're overrating the use of utility. And also the effectiveness of Hook's utility. His utility didn't exactly come to much use at all in the 6 Nations or the Autumn Internationals did it? Players need to be able to be good enough in their position outright in my opinion, and it is hard to argue that Hook who can't keep Biggar out of the side is one of the top 3 fly halves in the British Isles. Also I dispute the "do the job if required" bit as well, Hook is a reknowned choker and didn't exactly do a job required against France in 2011 under pressure.

I still don't think the quality is comparable. The Wales team would obliterate all the Welsh regions, including the Ospreys. Even though the calibre of player is comparable, the intensity they play with isn't. Players simply couldn't cope with playing at international intensity throughout the season, highlighted by how much work is done at international level to raise the fitness and conditioning levels before big tournaments.

Rubbish. No way would the Ospreys "be obliterated" by Wales. The Ospreys have an equal front five so the pack which Wales has used to win their most games would be cancelled out. Also the Ospreys have a better scrum half, and Wales' backs are overrated. Beck and Bishop could defend and negate Davies and Roberts, and in fact the much hyped Scarlets backline barely scored a try against them this season. So there is no way that they would be obliterated. I don't see how Wales could "obliterate" the Ospreys or where they would get any substantial advantage, in fact when was the last time Wales "obliterated" anybody to be honest. Their backline is blunt (see November 2012), and is just riding off the coat tails of the immense pack which the Ospreys have most of anyway.

Leinster v Clermont was a great domestic game, but still didn't reach the level of the top international games. Pretty much every player comments on how much quicker international rugby is than domestic after their first cap, and this is why some players struggle to make the transition. Even one of Leinsters big game players, Sexton struggled with the transition and needed time to adjust. Biggar is another who struggled, as have numerous others in the past.

For every Sexton there is a George North, just a couple months RaboPro12 action and then scored 2 tries on debut and was doing really well. There are numerous other cases of players taking to international rugby really well, Fofana is another example. So just saying Sexton (who actually I think I remember playing really well on one of his first caps vs South Africa) doesn't suggest a pattern. The fact Sexton hasn't always matched his Leinster form says more about the coaching methods of Declan Kidney than it does about international rugby tbh.

No player should be going with just the view of playing against Melbourne Rebels B team. If one of Farrell or Sexton got injured (your other two 10's), then he's be on the bench in the main tests, and that could require covering in the centre with a test series on the line. Madigan's barely played for Ireland yet, and is second choice at his province, too early for the Lions imo.

Nobody outside Leinster thinks that Madigan is a genuine contender for the Lions.

 

[munstermuffin]

Don't have to worry about that 10-12 combo set.

Boss was motm yesterday...

Really did an Irish person kill your family or something?

Sean O'Brien was Man Of Match.
Boss was ok but not standout like SOB, Madigan and Ross had good game

 

[big ginger 8]

Sean O'Brien was Man Of Match.
Boss was ok but not standout like SOB, Madigan and Ross had good game

Than why was Boss being interviewed as motm? RTE gave him the award. He wasn't my pick.

Anyway I'm not being serious about him as a Lion just taking the **** out of Draggs for being an idiot.

 

[munstermuffin]

Don't know but SOB was announced over stadium and I definitely saw him with a vase after.

 

[dullonien]

You can cover every position from the bench actually very easily. A bench of Laidlaw, Tuilagi and Hogg covers every position. So would Care, Farrell and Kearney or Phillips, Farrell and Roberts even. Then add to the fact that you would expect at least one or two of the starting backline could change position if needed and it isn't that much of an issue. Having said that though, I would have much rather Hook had been on the bench in hindsight than ROG in 2009!

You're overrating the use of utility. And also the effectiveness of Hook's utility. His utility didn't exactly come to much use at all in the 6 Nations or the Autumn Internationals did it? Players need to be able to be good enough in their position outright in my opinion, and it is hard to argue that Hook who can't keep Biggar out of the side is one of the top 3 fly halves in the British Isles. Also I dispute the "do the job if required" bit as well, Hook is a reknowned choker and didn't exactly do a job required against France in 2011 under pressure.

Behind Sexton, the quality at 10 isn't great. Biggar I think is underrated, but has only recently transferred his regional form into international form. Farrell is overrated and is imo a limited player bigged up by Guscott as the 'ice man' despite crumbling under pressure on a few occasions. Behind them there's Laidlaw who I question his quality at 10 (he's a better 9 imo), and rookies like Madigan. Hook isn't far behind some of these players, and is probably a little unlucky not to have played more for Wales over the past couple of seasons. I'm not in the camp that Hook is the rightful Welsh 10 and Gatland and Howley have been idiots for not picking him, but I'm also not in the Hook = rubbish camp. I think he's still a very good player who's fallen a little out of favour. He's not a past-it player like ROG.

If Biggar weren't the starting 10, maybe if an on-form Priestland was starting, then I'd still have Hook on the bench over Biggar.

And I still think his versatility can come in useful. We didn't lose many players to injury during the 6 nations, in fact we were able to put out the same backline for every game. Doesn't mean Hook's versatility can't come in useful. Look at the last Lions tour, at one stage Phillips had to fill in at centre, unlikely scenario's, but they do happen, and are more likely during intense, all on the line tests such as a Lions tour which only comes around once every 12 years for the Aussies.

Rubbish. No way would the Ospreys "be obliterated" by Wales. The Ospreys have an equal front five so the pack which Wales has used to win their most games would be cancelled out. Also the Ospreys have a better scrum half, and Wales' backs are overrated. Beck and Bishop could defend and negate Davies and Roberts, and in fact the much hyped Scarlets backline barely scored a try against them this season. So there is no way that they would be obliterated. I don't see how Wales could "obliterate" the Ospreys or where they would get any substantial advantage, in fact when was the last time Wales "obliterated" anybody to be honest. Their backline is blunt (see November 2012), and is just riding off the coat tails of the immense pack which the Ospreys have most of anyway.

I may have over-exaggerated this. However I still think that Wales get a lot more out of the Ospreys players than the Ospreys manage. In your opinion there's not much between the Ospreys team and the Welsh team, but that should mean that the O's should have lifted a HC by now because the Welsh team have proven their credentials by securing Grand-Slams and reaching World Cup Semi Finals.

For every Sexton there is a George North, just a couple months RaboPro12 action and then scored 2 tries on debut and was doing really well. There are numerous other cases of players taking to international rugby really well, Fofana is another example. So just saying Sexton (who actually I think I remember playing really well on one of his first caps vs South Africa) doesn't suggest a pattern. The fact Sexton hasn't always matched his Leinster form says more about the coaching methods of Declan Kidney than it does about international rugby tbh.

I take that as some players are naturally able to handle international rugby. Some can shine at domestic level, even at HC level but struggle at international. This to me shows that there is a step-up in intensity.

Anyway, we're probably quite far off topic now. I admit that this is just my opinion, and it may well be wrong.

 

[munstermuffin]

Thing I'd ask though been fair. Laidlaw played well for Scotland in a poor 6Nations but his club form hasn't been great like is he been a bit too over hyped.

 

[Tony Manx]

Wilko had a great game today for Toulon............just saying!!

 

[munstermuffin]

I think Wilko would bbe a certain Lion if his commitments in Frech League weren't an issue and fact I think he knows the toll a shortened summer has on body and isn't too bothered

 

[Tony Manx]

Think Gatland said something about not cutting off his nose etc regards the French based players, would like to see Hines included.

 

[Joseph14]

The Heineken Cup is harder to win than the six nations.

How many slams would this current Wales side have if they had to face the likes of Leinster in their pomp or Clermont etc?

 

[munstermuffin]

As I said though part of it is does Wilko want to go. If he does then Sexton would have real competition but Jonny has had injuries and the Lions tour is injuries in making so he might say no.

 

[munstermuffin]

The Heineken Cup is harder to win than the six nations.

How many slams would this current Wales side have if they had to face the likes of Leinster in their pomp or Clermont etc?

As much as I'd like to agree I'd have to disagree. International is big step up and you can't exactly compare like with like. Thing is realistically there is only ever 5/6 teams in HEC with realistic ambitions of winning. These teams gain momentum against uninterested teams while also not having the same heavy schedule a 6nations carries

 

[Tony Manx]

As I said though part of it is does Wilko want to go. If he does then Sexton would have real competition but Jonny has had injuries and the Lions tour is injuries in making so he might say no.

If, and it is a massive if, he were to be selected, he would without any doubt go and if that were the end of his career through injury or the body finally gave out, I can only imagine he would retire a very content and happy man. He certaiinly can afford to......

The alternative is another year of hard graft for Toulon.......and a cut in pay!!

But would Gatland etc take the chance?

PS Not sure he has missed any, and if he has then certainly not many, matches through injuries this season! Played in 27 out of possible 31 matches for Toulon.....

 

[munstermuffin]

He's already signed on for next season at the same pay with Toulon