Western Province v Lions

[Incredible Schalk]

Incredible they give Murray one game, Blair one game and Ford one game, how the hell can they prove themselves with so little game time. Yet Earls who was even worse than Blair in the first test gets 3 starts, such bias in selection <_<

 

[Bumbadum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 12 2009, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

8. Andy Powell (Cardiff Blues/Wales)

6. Joe Worsley (London Wasps/England)[/b]

<_<

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Incredible Schalk @ Jun 12 2009, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Incredible they give Murray one game, Blair one game and Ford one game, how the hell can they prove themselves with so little game time. Yet Earls who was even worse than Blair in the first test gets 3 starts, such bias in selection <_<[/b]

Blair was never going to get ahead of Philips after his first run out. However I'd be surprised if he wasnt on the bench for the test team.

Murray has had plenty of time, I think he's done quite well. Could easily see him starting.

Why complain about Earls? He's not starting at 9 is he?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jun 11 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

By the way, what happened to Powell ? I remember last year a lot of the Welsh were talking him up to be the next best 8man in world rugby, why so much hate lately ?[/b]

They do that with every new cap. Especially forwards with long hair. Its a Welsh thing, you get used to it.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jun 12 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Incredible Schalk @ Jun 12 2009, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Incredible they give Murray one game, Blair one game and Ford one game, how the hell can they prove themselves with so little game time. Yet Earls who was even worse than Blair in the first test gets 3 starts, such bias in selection <_<[/b]

Blair was never going to get ahead of Philips after his first run out. However I'd be surprised if he wasnt on the bench for the test team.

Murray has had plenty of time, I think he's done quite well. Could easily see him starting.

Why complain about Earls? He's not starting at 9 is he?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jun 11 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

By the way, what happened to Powell ? I remember last year a lot of the Welsh were talking him up to be the next best 8man in world rugby, why so much hate lately ?[/b]

They do that with every new cap. Especially forwards with long hair. Its a Welsh thing, you get used to it.
[/b][/quote]

I weren't talking him up at all before he emerged, he was lucky he got a break in the Blues side only because Rush and Warburton were injured. He was on the verge of signing for Wigan RL at the start of the season.

 

[Count of Devonshire]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bumbadum @ Jun 11 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Not only is Murray better than Vickery, but he doesnt give away penalties in his own half like there was some prize for doing so.

Jenkins is so superior to Sheridan in every possible aspect of rugby playing that it's not even funny.[/b]

Murray is a good scrummager, but the old bean offers practically nothing else whereas Vickery does. Without comparable opposition, I'd lean to argue that Jenkins and Sheridan are similarly strong in the scrum, but would wholeheartedly agree that Jenkins has so much more to his game as well. Nevertheless, a big chance for the Englishmen to stake strong claims for a test place. If Big Phil avoids the penalties and the bin then he'll make the test XV for me. Sheridan wouldn't.




I'd quite like to see Shaw given another run out. He was most dynamic in his cameo on Wednesday, unlike our other second rows on the tour to date. And if people really need someone to justify Worsley's inclusion in the team, or even the Lions squad, then they either don't know rugby or just live in a fantasy world. The chap offers nothing but tackling ability, everyone knows that, but if a tackler is needed to break up the SA play, which I suspect it might, then why would we want anyone else? Pretending that we can take on the SA at an expansive attacking game could be more costly than any individual selection on this tour.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (glosbigboy @ Jun 11 2009, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Jun 11 2009, 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (glosbigboy @ Jun 11 2009, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Il be looking for Murray to have a big game as so far he has been a real let down. I know hes not much around the park but I was hoping for a bit more impact in the scums. Perhaps the poor guys just been over hyped after his games in the Autumn internationals. Similar to Blair really! A few good games and all of a sudden you are the number one player in the world in your position. Just daft. Also open side is there for the taking if Williams wants it. Wallace was better last night but not really setting the world alight.
Isnt it time O`Connell started jumping at the front rather than middle. AWJ is imo a shoe in to start with OC but they have the jumping positions wrong. Put Croft at the front on their ball and I can see us at least making an impact on their ball(more than most sides do). Scrum time is where I see us getting the better of the Boks. Beast and Smit are not the best scrummagers and I think if we go with Sheridan/Jenkins(not a lot to chose on form between them) at loose and Vickery at tight we can really go after them. catch them cold as they will be undercooked as in 97 and its all on the 2nd test.[/b]

Beast had massive problems against Murray in the Autumn, and tbh he's a much better scrummager than Vickery, and offers more in the loose too. Jenkins is miles ahead of Sheridan too, he offers a hell of a lot more in both the scrums and the loose imo. Jenkins had the upper hand against his opponent (Smit I think it was) in both the Summer Tour to SA and the Autumn Series match, so that should be a decent backing too.
[/b][/quote]
Its all about form. Vickery is miles ahead of Murray at the moment but that can change with one huge performance on Sat. Where has Murray offered more than Vickery on this tour in the scrum or loose. From what ive seen Murray looks like a body builder who cares more about taping his biceps up to look good rather than the nuts and bolts of forward play.Jenkins ,I admit is a very good prop and probably no1 but look at what Sheridan has done to taller props. he has destroyed them.We are lucky to have two exceptional loose heads on the tour.
[/b][/quote]

Better discipline, no yellow cards, you're guaranteed a card or at least 4 penalties against you if you start with Vickery which frighteningly looks like a possibility now with Murray sitting this game out.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Jun 12 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bumbadum @ Jun 11 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not only is Murray better than Vickery, but he doesnt give away penalties in his own half like there was some prize for doing so.

Jenkins is so superior to Sheridan in every possible aspect of rugby playing that it's not even funny.[/b]

Murray is a good scrummager, but the old bean offers practically nothing else whereas Vickery does. Without comparable opposition, I'd lean to argue that Jenkins and Sheridan are similarly strong in the scrum, but would wholeheartedly agree that Jenkins has so much more to his game as well. Nevertheless, a big chance for the Englishmen to stake strong claims for a test place. If Big Phil avoids the penalties and the bin then he'll make the test XV for me. Sheridan wouldn't.




I'd quite like to see Shaw given another run out. He was most dynamic in his cameo on Wednesday, unlike our other second rows on the tour to date. And if people really need someone to justify Worsley's inclusion in the team, or even the Lions squad, then they either don't know rugby or just live in a fantasy world. The chap offers nothing but tackling ability, everyone knows that, but if a tackler is needed to break up the SA play, which I suspect it might, then why would we want anyone else? Pretending that we can take on the SA at an expansive attacking game could be more costly than any individual selection on this tour.
[/b][/quote]


You know, I was going to play a game of putting the most amusing quotes during the Lions tour into my sig on a week by week basis... I may now however just put a quick link into this members profile.

Tell me, are you Phil Vickerys mum? That is the only way I could understand such unwarranted praise.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Incredible Schalk @ Jun 12 2009, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Incredible they give Murray one game, Blair one game and Ford one game, how the hell can they prove themselves with so little game time. Yet Earls who was even worse than Blair in the first test gets 3 starts, such bias in selection <_<[/b]

firstly you're not comparing like with like, with Shanklin gone there's nobody left to cover O'Driscoll hence the starts for Earls, if you want to question wasted starts, question Shane Williams.

You still have a point though, Blair should be starting this game as to play a test fly half with a gimp in his last match before the tests is madness.

Was a 50/50 call between Ford and Rees, neither are going to start the tests and both have had 1 start each.

 

[Count of Devonshire]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jun 12 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You know, I was going to play a game of putting the most amusing quotes during the Lions tour into my sig on a week by week basis... I may now however just put a quick link into this members profile.

Tell me, are you Phil Vickerys mum? That is the only way I could understand such unwarranted praise.[/b]

Sir, I feel that you are clouded by your idealistic vision of 'change' providing the answers to success in rugby. Elsewhere and frequently you have written off half the England old guard - remembering that many of whom have formed key components of our most successful side ever - in favour of mere pups (who've wholly struggled), and I feel that this is the main reason you are so quick to bombard poor Vickery. I do not feel my praise of him anywhere has been overboard, the chap is not as good as he was even in 2007, but I would certainly rank him above what is an essentially quite average player at this level like Euan Murray.

 

[Bullitt]

:lol: Righto

 

[dullonien]

Before his cameo appearance on Wed, I would have agreed with you about Vickery Count. But then he went and gave away a yellow card after 2min on the field! I can't tell you what for, as the cameras missed it, but it must have been something for the ref to be so quick to pull a yellow. I was hoping he'd learn't his lessons, as he had a good game against the Golden Lions, but that was obviously a fluke as he's now back to his penalty giving, yellow card receiving worst. He's now behind Adam Jones and Euan Murray in my books.

I thought Adam had a decent game against the Sharks. He was strong in the scrums and showed up ok in open play, but not as prominent as he has been. I've been disappointed with Euan Murray so far this tour, he hasn't shown up in the loose atall, but he is the best available if on form, although I think Adam has shown a better performance so far. Murray should have been handed another start, stupid!

God I feel sorry for Martyn Williams, he's gonna get no help in the rucks without the likes of Heaslip, Gethin Jenkins or O'Connell playing. He'll still certainly play a part in the test 22, but it looks like from the bench at the moment. I'm starting to realise the kinda workrate Ryan Jones was going through to compensate for Powell in the Welsh setup. Powell really does need to add that to his game if he hopes to keep ahead of the likes of Ryan Jones, Jonathan Thomas, Gareth Delve, Sam Warberton etc. in the Welsh team.

I'm not all that pleased with this team, as it looks like some of the players hoping to make a claim for the test team, Williams, Stephen Jones etc. aren't gonna get any protection atall. Why isn't Ryan Jones on the bench? He could have been invaluable for this game if Worsley and Powell fail to show up again. And why isn't D'Arcy starting instead of Earls, who's had his chances already?

This will be another close game.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Jun 12 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If Big Phil avoids the penalties and the bin then he'll make the test XV for me.[/b]

You see where you went wrong there?

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jun 12 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And why isn't D'Arcy starting instead of Earls, who's had his chances already?[/b]

Probably because D'Arcy's a 12 where as Earls was brought as the 'Oh God Drico's inured! We're doomed!' cover. People seem to remember only the first 20 minutes of the first match. His defence has been excellent in both matches he's started and he's scored a good try.

Hopefully tomorrow will be a good day though I forsee the usual disaster of a one man backrow again.

 

[feicarsinn]

Well if he gets injured we are doomed as they showed 4 years ago.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jun 12 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Before his cameo appearance on Wed, I would have agreed with you about Vickery Count. But then he went and gave away a yellow card after 2min on the field! I can't tell you what for, as the cameras missed it, but it must have been something for the ref to be so quick to pull a yellow. I was hoping he'd learn't his lessons, as he had a good game against the Golden Lions, but that was obviously a fluke as he's now back to his penalty giving, yellow card receiving worst. He's now behind Adam Jones and Euan Murray in my books.

I thought Adam had a decent game against the Sharks. He was strong in the scrums and showed up ok in open play, but not as prominent as he has been. I've been disappointed with Euan Murray so far this tour, he hasn't shown up in the loose atall, but he is the best available if on form, although I think Adam has shown a better performance so far. Murray should have been handed another start, stupid![/b]

The only reason that Vickery is getting game time at the moment is due to Gerald Davies flexing his muscle over the Murray-photoshoot incident 3 weeks ago.

Come test time things will change.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 12 2009, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Lions Team Announced:
British & Irish Lions (vs Western Province)

15. Rob Kearney (Leinster/Ireland)
14. Tommy Bowe (Ospreys/Ireland)
13. Keith Earls (Munster/Ireland)
12. Riki Flutey (London Wasps/England)
11. Ugo Monye (Harlequins/England)
10. Stephen Jones (Scarlets/Wales)
9. Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers/England)
8. Andy Powell (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
7. Martyn Williams (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
6. Joe Worsley (London Wasps/England)
5. Nathan Hines (Perpignan/Scotland)
4. Donncha O’Callaghan (Munster/Ireland)
3. Phil Vickery (London Wasps/England, captain)
2. Matthew Rees (Scarlets/Wales)
1. Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks/England)

Replacements

16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh/Scotland)
17. Euan Murray (Northampton Saints/Scotland)
18. Simon Shaw (London Wasps/England)
19. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers/England)
20. Mike Blair (Edinburgh/Scotland)
21. James Hook (Ospreys/Wales)
22. Gordon D’Arcy (Leinster/Ireland)

Great to see Ryan Jones getting a place on the bench <_<[/b]

Obviously Geech thinks the Lions need a loss to shake things up based on this selection.

Boring back row, all smash no grab...apart from Williams.
Earls...wtf, fair enough he was good under the high ball Hooks set up but the only reason he had a good game was because he spent considerably less time with ball in hand against the Cheetahs.
Harry Ellis...NO! Mike Blair, PRICK!

 

[MunsterMan]

That really is laughable. He had an alright game, scored a lovely try and was solid defensively but had to spent most of his time along with Fitzgerald clearing out at the breakdown because of Worsley and Powell being no where to be found.

Flutey and Earls is a lovey balanced centre combination, and will work well.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

Fair enough, but I think there are other 13s that deserve a run out.

 

[Sir Speedy]

After last week's disaster, how the hell can the management justify picking such a horrific backrow? What's worse is that somebody has bothered to justify Worsley's inclusion. Fact: he offers nothing but defence, which isn't too good anyway. Powell offers nothing but CRASHBANGWALLOP which normally goes ***s up for us anyway.

Murray should have started at tighthead. Vickery is a berk.

Ellis was decent last week, but that's it, just decent. We won't get anything more out of him, which is why I'd have preferred Blair.

Hopefully Earls can continue where he left off, with Flutey inside him having a good game, and with a bit of luck, we may see Sheridan do something other than scrummage. Not likely though. About as likely as Monye and Kearney doing anything to cement places in the test side.

Province will win, I think. I hope to God I'm wrong though...

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Jun 12 2009, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Fair enough, but I think there are other 13s that deserve a run out.[/b]

Which ones? Name the other 13s on tour who deserve a run out?

Shanklin?
Max Evans?
Tindall?

Oh wait. They're not there.

Or do we want to retrain D'Arcy so that over 1 match he'll suddenly become a 13?