(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I just can't see Gats picking both Ford and Farrell at ten if only one of them is playing in that position for England. It'll be one or the other IMO as there are better (and more specialist) centres than Farrell to choose from.

I really hope Finn Russell gets a chance to showcase his ability at the AI and 6N. He missed most of this year's 6N due to injury. He has real flair and game management skills. He just needs to bulk up a bit IMO.[/QUOTE

Lions shoe ins -: Lee, Hartley, AWJ, Itojoe, Falatau, Tips, Warbs, Vunapola, Webb, Ford,Johny Fox,, liam W and 1/2 penny. If Warbs isn't fit then AWJ will be captain. Of these Falatau is the best 8 in the World without question and Webb is the best 9.

You must be very Welsh if you think Lee is a shoe on and Faletau and Webb are the best in their positions in the world. They're close but Read's better than Faletau and Smith, Murray and maybe Perenara are better than Webb.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You must be very Welsh if you think Lee is a shoe on and Faletau and Webb are the best in their positions in the world. They're close but Read's better than Faletau and Smith, Murray and maybe Perenara are better than Webb.

He's so Welsh he could go on countdown and ask for a vowel yet still get a "y".

However yeah, lots of those names are not shoe ins at all. Lee, Tips and 1/2p are possibly but far from certian. AWJ brings leadership but has not been the best lock in the NH. Also to claim Faletau and Webb are the best in the world... Both are very good but they aren't that far ahead of the competition. Certainly there aren't 9 Welsh shoe ins and only 5 from every other nation. Wales have been beaten more than they have won against Ireland and England since the last Lions tour. Also average 6N finishes since the last tour:

Wales: 3 3 2 av 2.6
Ireland : 1 1 3 av 1.6
England: 2 2 1 av 1.6

SH wins since Lions:

Wales 1
Ireland 3
England 5
Scotland 0

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I would take Faletau over Read TBH.

Webb is very good but ain't above Smith.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Faletau might not be unequivocally the best in his position, but he has a legit claim*. Webb not so much although he is very good.

* And yes, I have said that since before he came to Bath...

 

[The Jones Boy]

Everytime I see Faletau play he looks excellent. He's a real team player, he brings his team mates into the game with his go forward. He'll be a handful for the AB's

 

[Mumbles119]

Faletau might not be unequivocally the best in his position, but he has a legit claim*. Webb not so much although he is very good.

* And yes, I have said that since before he came to Bath...

Everytime I see Faletau play he looks excellent. He's a real team player, he brings his team mates into the game with his go forward. He'll be a handful for the AB's

Completely agree about Faletau, he is a joy to watch regardless of who you are supporting. It does beg the selection question of what to do with the also very effective Billy too.

There have been ideas about playing both with one at 6 and one 8. But I think I would prefer Billy to come on at 8 or 6 from the bench after a higher speed and higher work rate starting back row have attempted to tire the ABs out a bit.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

We're blessed with some fantasic no.8s in world rugby atm. Faletau is certainly in my top 5 ATM- in no particular order:

Read
Faletau
Parisse
Vunipola
Whitely

And this isn't mentioning the likes of Vermeulen (injured atm), Isa, Picamoles.

 

[Lancashire Nick]

Why are there 2 tests at Eden Park ? I don't get it...

Because (sadly) Canterbury no longer have a stadium big enough to host a Lions Test.

 

[Immenso]

I think the Lions will be awesome and they will give the AB's a real run for their money.
So stoked the first game of the tour is against the minnows of Northland in Whangarei, the Taniwhas. They will give it a go as is their spirit but with a city population of about 55,000 people they won't present much opposition for the Lions. It makes for a nice easy start to the tour for the Lions. But what a great boon to Whangarei to host the Lions. The stuff of legend.

The province of Northland has about 150k. But it's a moot point anyway as although the match is in Whangarei, it isn't v Northland. Is v a barbarians team which is likely to be a scratch team of the best non-super rugby players.

Northland would have been better though IMO.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

8 is a position the Lions will be so strong in to the point that it's not too unlikely that Ireland's most important back rower, probably our strongest unit after our starting half backs, Jamie Heaslip might not make it. I do predict another career season from the guy though and wouldn't be surprised to see him start a test, he's my pick as the best Lion over the last two tours which is high praise considering what PO'C, BO'D and AWJ did in them.

As for shoe ins there's not too many at this stage, Murray, Sexton, Faletau, Warburton and Itoje are the only guys I'd say are nailed on because, with the exceptions of Itoje, Faletau and Murray, I can't think of any player who's done enough over the past 12 months to ensure they'll go even if they're faltering somewhat come the end of the season and I think you have to bring Sexton and Warburton because they're the only two guys not at risk of going over the hill in the next 12 months who were leaders on the last tour. I suppose 1/2p could be included considering the coach but I refuse to because I believe 15 is a position where the Lions are stacked with guys who are just as good when on form and better suited to playing NZ, Brown's demise and the continuation of Kearney's injury woes will probably get him in though unless Payne, Hogg and Liam Williams are all playing their rugby at 15 and are in the form of their lives around selection time... Unlikely!

 

[dullonien]

I'd be tempted to pick both Faletau and Binny. Faletau at 6 and Binny at 8 where his explosive power will be so valuable.

I'd complete that backrow with Tips at 7. That imo would be the most versatile and balanced backrow the Lions can put out. Binny and Tips very specialist in opposite ways, Faletau as the workaholic, mistake free player who does everything well.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'd be tempted to pick both Faletau and Binny. Faletau at 6 and Binny at 8 where his explosive power will be so valuable.

I'd complete that backrow with Tips at 7. That imo would be the most versatile and balanced backrow the Lions can put out. Binny and Tips very specialist in opposite ways, Faletau as the workaholic, mistake free player who does everything well.

Does Faletau play 6 though? Can he, has he ever? I guess he has the skill set in theory but that isn't enough to put him there for the Lions.

BV has played 6 for Saracens but not for England, he's not a genuine blindside option for me. I don't like this idea that we should squeeze 2 8s into the back row because they're both good 8s, pick 6s at 6 and 8s at 8. For me Faletau is the starter, maybe there's a place for Billy as an impact sub.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The province of Northland has about 150k. But it's a moot point anyway as although the match is in Whangarei, it isn't v Northland. Is v a barbarians team which is likely to be a scratch team of the best non-super rugby players.

Northland would have been better though IMO.

Oh really?
Well it's nice for those players to get a game but i would have preferred the game in Whangarei to be against the mighty (or not so mighty ) Taniphas, oh well...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd be tempted to pick both Faletau and Binny. Faletau at 6 and Binny at 8 where his explosive power will be so valuable.

I'd complete that backrow with Tips at 7. That imo would be the most versatile and balanced backrow the Lions can put out. Binny and Tips very specialist in opposite ways, Faletau as the workaholic, mistake free player who does everything well.

Iain Henderson.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Iain Henderson.

Yup. I hope see:
6. Henderson
7. Warburton
8. Faletau

With Vunipola and maybe another back row sub on the bench (with Henderson at 6 lock cover on the bench may not be necessary.

 

[dullonien]

Yup. I hope see:
6. Henderson
7. Warburton
8. Faletau

With Vunipola and maybe another back row sub on the bench (with Henderson at 6 lock cover on the bench may not be necessary.

All three good players, but Imo not enough stand-out qualities that you need when facing NZ.

The way Vunipola is playing (for England and Saracens), he has to start. If he can replicate that v NZ, then that would be such a huge boost, because if we can get them on the backfoot, then that'll increase our chances no end.

Faletau is too good to leave out. He's almost a perfect blindside in his workrate, his defensive solidity, and it'll be another big boost to have another strong carrier in the back row, but in a very different way to Binny. Has he played at 6 before? I can't remember, but doubt he'll struggle with the switch + he's played 7 before and that's a bigger departure.

Imo he beats the likes of Henderson, Lydiate, O'Brien etc. due to his consistent excellence in close to every international game since his debut in 2011.

The Tipuric selection is probably a huge amount of bias on my part. I personally think he's good enough to be considered the best open side in the world if he were given a run of games there internationally. As with Binny, Imo he's got that something extra required to compete with and beat NZ. I'd love to see him feed off the kind of go forward ball that Binny and Faletau (and Itoje) could supply.

Lasyly, I'm not always convinced by keeping players like Binny and Tips on the bench as impact subs. If the game is over by the tone they enter the fray, then what's the point. NZ can keep the likes of Barrett as an impact sub, because they know the team starting will always at the very least stay in contention + wear the opposition down. Not always convinced we have the quality to do so. Maybe the Lions will, but I'd always start with the best and try to build a lead.

 

[Groundhog]

To be fair I'd have Faletau as the first name in that backrow. To beat the blacks you need really skilled operators with huge engines and handling ability like Faletau. I know Vunipola is no slouch mind you. Vunipola would be very useful off the bench anyway. Tackling a guy like that when he's fresh and you've played 60 odd minutes would be a nightmare.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

To be fair I'd have Faletau as the first name in that backrow. To beat the blacks you need really skilled operators with huge engines and handling ability like Faletau. I know Vunipola is no slouch mind you. Vunipola would be very useful off the bench anyway. Tackling a guy like that when he's fresh and you've played 60 odd minutes would be a nightmare.

Agreed, I don't think Vunipola is anywhere near diverse enough to cause the All Blacks any real harm when starting, they know how to tackle big lads.

Faletau is maybe the best player available to the Lions (big claim, I know) and I see no point playing him out of position.

Tips is fine but for me he doesn't make the plane. Warbs is a shoe in IMO unless SOB regains form.

Henderson is in for me as he's big, physical and offers a very good 3rd option in the line out. There aren't many areas I can see the Lions outplaying the ABs, but the set piece is one. So we should play to our strengths.

 

[Which Tyler]

Leigh's getting ready to tour already

 

[Peat]

Henderson doesn't have stand out qualities? :huh:

Obviously I'm biased here but I've seen him tie Keith Earls in a foot race for the ball and drive blindside flankers 5m back out of a maul. He's disturbingly quick and powerful and would probably be the best third lineout jumper we could take. Don't think I've seen too many back rows with his sort of footwork either. He's pretty much all stand-out qualities.