(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[Bada-Bing!]

Yeh but the warm up games have neever looked this tough either.

And they are pros who have just come of the back of playing a 30 game season (Roughly) why would they need to get more battle harden.

Because playing to get into the Lions test squad is a step up from playing Aviva/Pro12 in terms of intensity.

I think it's a question of balance - pick enough players (yes they've come off a draining season) to compete with each other and play enough to feel they all have a chance to get into the test squad and not too many that certain players feel they have not had enough game time to prove themselves (the players who don't end up making the test squad are just as important to support the test squad players).

The initial 37-39 squad Gatland takes will inevitably be supplemented cover and replacements as shown on all previous Lions tours.

 

[Peat]

Going by the last 5 Lions' initial squads they have taken no more than 9/10 from rowers. The 2005 squad, which took 44 being the exception of taking 10; 4 of whom were hookers (and that squad was deemed too big by most). I don't see Gatland taking 12 Front rowers at the expense of Squad cohesiveness and also the front row playing enough/being battle hardened in time for the tests.

4 of those 5 were when there was only one prop on the bench and you couldn't reverse prop substitutions if injured. Since that point, front row workloads (particularly the props) has gone up significantly. We went with 37 last time - Gatland's talking about more - he clearly feels he was understaffed somewhere. The most obvious place where Gatland might feel he's understaffed since last tour is the place where the workload's gone up.

Maybe he won't take 12 but I'd be surprised if he took 9 either.

 

[Saint4805]

I'd drop a wing for a 5th centre. Other than that, that's probably what it'll be. I'd go for:

1. McGrath, Vunipola, Marler, Dickinson (Although Gats will probably opt for Evans)
2. Hartley, George, Best, Owens/Baldwin (Whichever's starting for Wales at the time)
3. Nel, Cole, Lee, Hill
4. Itoje, Launchbury, Gray (Jonny)
5. Jones, Kruis
6. Henderson, O'Mahony (If unfit then Stander or more likely Lyds)
7. Warburton, Hardie, O'Brien (If unfit then take Stander/Lyds as an extra 6)
8. Faletau, Vunipola
9. Murray, Webb, Youngs
10. Farrell, Ford, Sexton
11. North, Nowell
12. Henshaw, Roberts
13. Davies, Joseph, Tuilagi
14. Watson
15. Williams, Hogg, Halfpenny

I just can't see Gats picking both Ford and Farrell at ten if only one of them is playing in that position for England. It'll be one or the other IMO as there are better (and more specialist) centres than Farrell to choose from.

I really hope Finn Russell gets a chance to showcase his ability at the AI and 6N. He missed most of this year's 6N due to injury. He has real flair and game management skills. He just needs to bulk up a bit IMO.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

4 of those 5 were when there was only one prop on the bench and you couldn't reverse prop substitutions if injured. Since that point, front row workloads (particularly the props) has gone up significantly. We went with 37 last time - Gatland's talking about more - he clearly feels he was understaffed somewhere. The most obvious place where Gatland might feel he's understaffed since last tour is the place where the workload's gone up.

Maybe he won't take 12 but I'd be surprised if he took 9 either.

It's funny because in the last Lions tour from the initial 9 front row selected, 3 ended being replaced. Hartley by Best because of Hartley's suspension, Cian Healy and Gethin Jenkins replaced by Corbs and Grant. So really only 2 of the initial 9 front row picks were injury enforced. If the last Lions squad was understaffed it was when injuries hit the centres and the wing positions. Now not all Lions tours in terms of injury are going to be the same and it's impossible to predict which positions will be hardest hit. I accept that front rows' workload have gone up, but for me the priority is to get the initial squad size and cohesiveness right, then when injuries and suspensions happen call in cover and replacements.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Mental to think 36 and Wade have run out in a Lions shirt

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Mental to think 36 and Wade have run out in a Lions shirt

And Barritt.

Tbf at that point it did look like Wade was inches from breaking into the England set up permanently.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Mental to think 36 and Wade have run out in a Lions shirt

I won a nice little bet against a Welshman when that happened. I had bet 12trees would play for the Lions and he didn't think so. He tried to back out of it when I pestered him. Now I just have to wait for the next world cup to win the next bet (he thought Wales would win the world cup either the one that just went or the next one).

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I won a nice little bet against a Welshman when that happened. I had bet 12trees would play for the Lions and he didn't think so. He tried to back out of it when I pestered him. Now I just have to wait for the next world cup to win the next bet (he thought Wales would win the world cup either the one that just went or the next one).

Easy money!!!

 

[Peat]

And Barritt.

Tbf at that point it did look like Wade was inches from breaking into the England set up permanently.

Yes, two inches of height away from breaking in ^_^

 

[TheOvalBall]

You know what's sad ? It might take an All Black coach to beat the All Blacks. That's just messed up...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wasn't the whole 36, Wade and Barritt thing solely because they where the closest players who where match fit (Barritt i think was in SA). (Wales where in Japan but Gatland took all the welsh players he wanted), Ireland was touring in N.America.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We were in Argentina, weren't we? I seem to remember the players needed to take like 4 or 5 flights to get to NZ so it would've been easier for anyone in Japan or America

 

[Which Tyler]

We were in Argentina, weren't we? I seem to remember the players needed to take like 4 or 5 flights to get to NZ so it would've been easier for anyone in Japan or America

Yes, though I don't know about how many flights they took; but certainly they went because Gats wanted them, not because they were just down the road

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Remember when Shane Williams got a call up?
That was mental

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Remember when Shane Williams got a call up?
That was mental

Yep, but he was only called in for 1 match to save the other wingers From picking up any injuries before the First test- wasn't it against the Brumbies? . He knew and accepted it on this condition only and had no chance of playing any more matches.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We were in Argentina, weren't we? I seem to remember the players needed to take like 4 or 5 flights to get to NZ so it would've been easier for anyone in Japan or America

Argentina to Aus is a 3 flight trip and about 15 hours of flying.

Tokyo to Aus is about a 9 hour flight and remember Gatland took pretty much all the class players and Wales took a very young side to Japan.

America to Aus is 21+ hours (considering they where also playing in Canada as well which could mean over a day).

 

[The Jones Boy]

I think the Lions will be awesome and they will give the AB's a real run for their money.
So stoked the first game of the tour is against the minnows of Northland in Whangarei, the Taniwhas. They will give it a go as is their spirit but with a city population of about 55,000 people they won't present much opposition for the Lions. It makes for a nice easy start to the tour for the Lions. But what a great boon to Whangarei to host the Lions. The stuff of legend.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Why are there 2 tests at Eden Park ? I don't get it...

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Why are there 2 tests at Eden Park ? I don't get it...

Biggest stadium in NZ in terms of capacity and they haven't lost there since 1994.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_in_New_Zealand

 

[valley commando]

I just can't see Gats picking both Ford and Farrell at ten if only one of them is playing in that position for England. It'll be one or the other IMO as there are better (and more specialist) centres than Farrell to choose from.

I really hope Finn Russell gets a chance to showcase his ability at the AI and 6N. He missed most of this year's 6N due to injury. He has real flair and game management skills. He just needs to bulk up a bit IMO.[/QUOTE

Lions shoe ins -: Lee, Hartley, AWJ, Itojoe, Falatau, Tips, Warbs, Vunapola, Webb, Ford,Johny Fox,, liam W and 1/2 penny. If Warbs isn't fit then AWJ will be captain. Of these Falatau is the best 8 in the World without question and Webb is the best 9.