[2025 TRC} New Zealand v South Africa - 13/9/2025

[The Seeker]

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

View attachment 24630

Look at that PD

Just for the sake of controversy, imagine that table without Australia's last try.

 

[AlRums]

Gutted I missed that

Check DM, got you covered

 

[McTallshort]

Check DM, got you covered

Top man

 

[Welsh Exile]

Bet Scott Robertson hasn’t been doing much breakdancing lately.

God has been punishing him for turning down Wales.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Bet Scott Robertson hasn't been doing much breakdancing lately.

God has been punishing him for turning down Wales.

I wonder what god is punishing Wales for then

 

[Welsh Exile]

I wonder what god is punishing Wales for then

He doesn’t punish us. As his chosen people he just likes to test us. Exactly like how he puts dinosaur bones in the ground to test our faith.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He doesn't punish us. As his chosen people he just likes to test us. Exactly like how he puts dinosaur bones in the ground to test our faith.

So the Jews spent years wandering the desert looking for home, for the Welsh that's just trying try get back from the pub at the weekend

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Looks like razor isn't managing to turn his club level achievements into international ones, or has the calibre of player NZ have access to now just taken a nosedive?

my personal feeling is we have the same problem we've had for several years, bare with me

in a simplistic way there are two way to coach/build a team

1) pick the 15 best players and then come up with a game plan that suits them...thats where you end up with weird innovation or players out of their normal position
2) decided how to play, a game plan that unlocks what other teams are doing....and select the best players to undertake that game plan, thats where you might the "second best" player favoured because they're better at one or two specific aspect thats are key to the gameplan

....what we have done for years is pick the the 23 players that have the highest rating or "rugby 16" (coughbbcough)...but then also have a way we want to play...and they dont gel. The example ive used before was form a couple of years ago, George bridge on the left wing where clarke had been playing the game beforetwo widely different players...and yet we still saw all 90kg of George bridge trying to run crash balls from the blindside wing into SA forwards....this is why we see christie and BB...two pretty slow passers selected to try and run a fast counter attack gameplan...these guys were selected because "they were next in line"....regardless of what we were trying to do


but...after saying all that...not sure what could have been done against the second half performance, pretty special and impressive response...pure passion and skill

 

[WaterboySA]

Just for the sake of controversy, imagine that table without Australia's last try.

No controversy needed. You would be leading the table, and well deserved at that. They look good this year.

 

[OllyM97]

Saw this pop up on Twitter after the game on Saturday - that sign was up on the big screen as the Boks were starting their captains run. I know it was probably not deliberate and they have to test the screens before the game - but to me that just looks really tacky and lacks class. It comes across as disrespectful. There’s an unjustified arrogance about this NZ team that really grates, and a lot of it seeps through in the media coverage. I’m glad they got destroyed by a record score after seeing that.

 

[Alex Anghel]

my personal feeling is we have the same problem we've had for several years, bare with me

in a simplistic way there are two way to coach/build a team

1) pick the 15 best players and then come up with a game plan that suits them...thats where you end up with weird innovation or players out of their normal position
2) decided how to play, a game plan that unlocks what other teams are doing....and select the best players to undertake that game plan, thats where you might the "second best" player favoured because they're better at one or two specific aspect thats are key to the gameplan

....what we have done for years is pick the the 23 players that have the highest rating or "rugby 16" (coughbbcough)...but then also have a way we want to play...and they dont gel. The example ive used before was form a couple of years ago, George bridge on the left wing where clarke had been playing the game beforetwo widely different players...and yet we still saw all 90kg of George bridge trying to run crash balls from the blindside wing into SA forwards....this is why we see christie and BB...two pretty slow passers selected to try and run a fast counter attack gameplan...these guys were selected because "they were next in line"....regardless of what we were trying to do


but...after saying all that...not sure what could have been done against the second half performance, pretty special and impressive response...pure passion and skill

The problems started with the Lions series (countering the rush defence, as offside it is most of the time) and continued in Hansen last two years at the helm, when they come up with the concepts of “dual playmaker”, “forwards playing like backs” or “let’s put together our best players on the park”, instead of “let’s putting our best players for each position” …

ABs never really replaced Kaino (Squire was fantastic in 2016, but too injury prone and mentally fragile), they never really got it right with the midfield combo either, nor with the back 3, chowing to remain loyal to players either past their best, in the ageing curve or simply not the best in their respective positions.

Granted, saying “bye bye” to the SA teams in the Covid era was extremely detrimental to the Super Rugby NZ teams, as it ultimately created a false sense of superiority that got exposed at the international level.

My two cents anyway.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Saw this pop up on Twitter after the game on Saturday - that sign was up on the big screen as the Boks were starting their captains run. I know it was probably not deliberate and they have to test the screens before the game - but to me that just looks really tacky and lacks class. It comes across as disrespectful. There's an unjustified arrogance about this NZ team that really grates, and a lot of it seeps through in the media coverage. I'm glad they got destroyed by a record score after seeing that.

Is this post parodying something? Cause it's so OTT hahah

 

[ChicagoKid]

The problems started with the Lions series (countering the rush defence, as offside it is most of the time) and continued in Hansen last two years at the helm, when they come up with the concepts of "dual playmaker", "forwards playing like backs" or "let's put together our best players on the park", instead of "let's putting our best players for each position" …

ABs never really replaced Kaino (Squire was fantastic in 2016, but too injury prone and mentally fragile), they never really got it right with the midfield combo either, nor with the back 3, chowing to remain loyal to players either past their best, in the ageing curve or simply not the best in their respective positions.

Granted, saying "bye bye" to the SA teams in the Covid era was extremely detrimental to the Super Rugby NZ teams, as it ultimately created a false sense of superiority that got exposed at the international level.

My two cents anyway.

All of this is true. However, I think the biggest issue with NZ is two-fold: The rest of the world caught up. Teams 1-8 can beat anyone on their day. You couldn't say during the 2010-2017 dominance period.

France was at a low ebb. England too. Oz were good, but lacked depth. Boks were good but aging and then hit their low ebb in 16-17. Arg were worse.

Ireland was the one team that was consistently improving during the same period, culminating in the soldier field victory.

If you took peak 2010-2017 ABs, they are the best team in the world, but they aren't beating the Boks, England, France, Ireland, Argentina, and Oz 9/10 every year.

The second biggest problem is their golden generation was more platinum than golden. Even great players like Ardie and Beauden are not Richie and Dan Carter.

As you said, they've spent the last decade trying to replace Kaino. They've also never found a true replacement for Nonu or Conrad Smith.

Jordie is a great player, but he's a fullback playing 12. Goodhue was class but couldn't stay healthy. Reiko is not a center. Who knows with Proctor but he hasn't impressed me.

So you have several key positions that are still unfilled 10 years after the old guard retired.

That's where I'm the most disappointed with Razor. I thought he would tear up the Smith/Hanson/Fozzie plan and create something brand new.

Instead, he has made very few bold calls and basically stuck to business as usual.

Meanwhile you have the Boks, France, Oz, Argentina and England making wholesale changes to their personal and gameplans.

 

[S@d_Truth007]

From watching the Boks, the only change I would make is swapping Pollard for Libbok. Libbok is not consistent enough in the big moments.

The only reason Pollard is still here, is because Rassie is keeping the Game plan simple to suit his style of play.