Transfers rumours

[Which Tyler]

The clubs that were in breach of the cap and threatened legal action against PRL.

You can't not remember that?!

I do remember.
It never made any sense though, and makes even less sense to tie that to salary cap increases.

How could anyone possibly threaten legal action for not increasing the salary cap.

I thought it was fairly widely accepted that Sarries and Bath were caught cheating and told everyone that Salary caps are in fact illegal under EU law so any attempt to "punish" them would be met with a team of lawyers. They then came to the compromise of an increase in the cap, and both clubs giving some cash to either the other clubs or the PRL, and no points docking.

Widely accepted by those with an axe to grind and/or didn't actually look into it.
Widely refuted by those who didn't and/or did.
Of courses not everyone fell into those 2 brackets.

Claiming that salary caps are illegal (wrongly) and that the answer is to increase it is just utter stupidity however.
Chances are that both had been mildly guilty to the tune of an accounting error (ALA Wasps - their biggest accusers) and paid a fine that was made official from that point on.
Claims that they smashed or informed the cap were always fanciful.
Claims that they therefore threatened... anything... are tin foil hat type theories; let alone than 12 clubs decided to agree with 2 because they were scared.

 

[curtbob7]

Sarries and Bath yep. Closely followed by the Locusts, errhummmm Pests, erhummmmmmmmmmmm Wasps.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I do remember.
It never made any sense though, and makes even less sense to tie that to salary cap increases.

How could anyone possibly threaten legal action for not increasing the salary cap.

They didn't.

They said that Salary caps are illegal under EU law so any attempt to punish them would be met with legal action on that basis.
In order to avoid this, the other clubs agreed to an increase in the cap, with behind-closed-doors cash, and no points docking or public acknowledgement of their cheating.

 

[Which Tyler]

"Threatened legal action" were your words.
IF it ever happened, then it was bluff. They'd have lost and it wouldn't have been close.
Does nothing whatsoever to increase the salary cap - still a tin foil hat conspiracy.
A fine? Yes absolutely believable. Bullying a bunch of millionaires with fake legal action? Nope, not buying it.
And the 2 year delay for the bullying to work?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Of course you won't buy it.

You're a bath fan...


You really think the rest of the league would've wanted a legal battle? It would have been awful PR for rugby in England.

 

[ratsapprentice]

What do you think the reasons for the majority of clubs who don't pay up to the cap were for agreeing to increase the cap were then?

 

[Which Tyler]

So why do I defend Sarries?
Presumably, if you think I don't criticised/crucify Bath and Bruce, then you've never read anything I've written about them.
I know you're both utterly convinced by the conspiracy. That doesn't mean that everyone has to be or they're being unreasonable. Surely the argument has been done enough by now. You know my views, I know yours, no evidence has ever been produced, and we all agree the whole thing got swept under the rug.
You've certainly never explained why you think we were paying an average of 30% too much for each player, whilst simultaneously underpaying them enough that several moved on of their own accord, often for more money.



A] there were barely any clubs not spending up to the cap; there are still virtually none.
B] those 1-2 clubs (absolute maximum) who weren't getting particularly close to the cap, wanted to be.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

and who where those several players who moved for more money?

Point A is wrong Sale, Irish, Falcons, Worcester, and i believe Glous all don't spend up to the cap.

 

[curtbob7]

and who where those several players who moved for more money?

Point A is wrong Sale, Irish, Falcons, Worcester, and i believe Glous all don't spend up to the cap.

I'd be amazed if Quins did with that squad

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'd be amazed if Quins did with that squad

I think their was a time Quins where over paying their players quite a bit, But yeh you're prob right after the last Cap increase.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I'd like to say that it's because we're well behaved, but I think we're probably actually hitting the cap... If you go through the actual squad rather than how they are playing, we should in theory have some of the best depth in the prem... Sad reality is that its just not used

 

[curtbob7]

Must still be overpaying then because ive just had a look again

 

[Which Tyler]

and who where those several players who moved for more money?

Point A is wrong Sale, Irish, Falcons, Worcester, and i believe Glous all don't spend up to the cap.

Jack Cuthbert; Michael Claasens; Anthony Perenise; Nick Abendanon; Nick Koster; Ryan Caldwell; Tom Heathcote; Eusebio Guinazu. All of whom were offered contracts and only 1-2 of whom might have (wrongly) felt he wasn't getting the game time he deserved.

Sale, Gloucester, Newcastle (now, maybe not 3 years ago) lie if they claim not to spent more-or-less up to the cap (within say 10%). I'd be surprised if Wuss don't as well.
However. That's personal opinion, not irrefutable fact, and I wouldn't pretend otherwise.

So, how come the smallest squad, with most of the new signings not yet established, was overpaying by a good 30% in order the breahc the salary cap?
Actually. Don't bother answering, we've had this discussion a number of times, and with the lack of new evidence, neither of us is likely to change our minds.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well Cuthbert, Koster, Caldwell, Heathcote, Guinazu are hardly great examples. Koster played what 11 games, Guinazu 5(?), Cuthbert left for that money maker that is 2013 Edinburgh...

I mean you clearly overpaid players, Eastmond getting his contract ripped up because of it when Ford got da boot kind of proves it.

 

[Which Tyler]

What's wrong with the examples? You wanted examples of players who left for more money, I provided them. If you think they turned down Bath's offers in order to accept less money, then fine, otherwise they are examples of exactly what I claimed.

I've never denied that we overpaid some players, particularly Ford's favourites (Definitely Eastmond, probably Louw, possibly Ford Jr, definitely Donald before them). We had a small squad of well paid players; about 30% too small; paid about 30% more than average (not necessarily overpaid, only really Kyle looks to have been paid significantly more than his actual worth)
Had we overpaid players, and had a larger squad, then I would agree that we'd likely deliberately broken the cap. That didn't happen though.

 

[WaterboySA]

Pierre Schoeman(Bulls) to Edinburgh

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/star-bulls-prop-linked-with-move-to-scotland-20180404

 

[cgedin]

Edinburgh Departing Players Confirmed : Kevin Bryce, Glenn Bryce, Neil Cochrane, Robbie Fruean, John Hardie, Elliot Millar-Mills, Matt Shields, Cornell du Preez, Jason Harries, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Jordan Lay, Duncan Weir, Jason Tovey, Tom Galbraith, Phil Burleigh, Junior Rasolea

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/18/04/04/news-cockerill-confirms-further-summer-departures

 

[Which Tyler]

You still had Fruean? I thought he'd retired

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Edinburgh Departing Players Confirmed : Kevin Bryce, Glenn Bryce, Neil Cochrane, Robbie Fruean, John Hardie, Elliot Millar-Mills, Matt Shields, Cornell du Preez, Jason Harries, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Jordan Lay, Duncan Weir, Jason Tovey, Tom Galbraith, Phil Burleigh, Junior Rasolea

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/18/04/04/news-cockerill-confirms-further-summer-departures

That's a lot of players... Any idea where they're all off to?

 

[BPM]

Du Preez and Weir are going to Worcester and Lay is going to Bristol. Not sure on the rest.