Transfers rumours

[Peat]

Now that the contract has been signed, why would he by lying?

Start the next round of negotiations early? Doing a favour to big up the WRU? I don't know but I'm not going to put too much faith in what an agent is saying.

 

[AFalcon20]

Juan Pablo Socino, centre, Rotherham to Newcastle Falcons
Ruki Tipina, scrum half, Bristol to Newcastle Falcons.

 

[Amiga500]

The WRU are a disgrace, competing with the regions for AWJ and Adam as well which and driving up wages. And as Draggs says, Warburton has an awful ratio of games played for the Blues anyway, his 43 international matches aren't that far off how much he's played for the Blues since his Wales debut. The Blues have to compete with Toulon for players they hardly see, whilst the other is spending on all but the international weekends, it's a flawed system.

I'm glad I'm not in Wales... I might have to overhear senseless gibberish like this in a pub when having a few quiet pints.

1. WRU are a disgrace for paying wages to players the regions cannot afford to keep. Ohh, big bad WRU.
2. Players are a disgrace for getting injured and being unable to play. Ohhh, big bad players.
3. The WRU are a disgrace for offering to pay the wages of the disgraceful injured players the regions cannot afford. Ohhhh, what is the world coming to. How can the poor wee regions cope with all this?

The WRU contracts are being paid for out of the regions money and they have tried to compete with the regions for contracts and drive prices up.

 

[SelimNiai]

Juan Pablo Socino, centre, Rotherham to Newcastle Falcons
Ruki Tipina, scrum half, Bristol to Newcastle Falcons.

I hope Tipuna doesn't go but we will have to get rid of at least 1 9. So far we have Tipuna, Grindall, Braley with Peel coming next year.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm glad I'm not in Wales... I might have to overhear senseless gibberish like this in a pub when having a few quiet pints.

1. WRU are a disgrace for paying wages to players the regions cannot afford to keep. Ohh, big bad WRU.
2. Players are a disgrace for getting injured and being unable to play. Ohhh, big bad players.
3. The WRU are a disgrace for offering to pay the wages of the disgraceful injured players the regions cannot afford. Ohhhh, what is the world coming to. How can the poor wee regions cope with all this?

To be fair your missing Ducks point.
Is this being done in line with cutting Cardiffs funding is his question?
And also WRU can pull SW from Cardiff and put him in Dragons team etc. Is this a sort of bully tactic by WRU?
Would you question why AWJ signed with region over WRU?

Theres lots of cloud and unanswered questions so it's not as clear as you make out

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Good to see Amiga has a good grasp on the situation!

 

[McTallshort]

Amiga...is that a photo of you?

 

[psychic duck]

We've got no other information. His agent has stated that there were offers amounting to double what the WRU are paying from two teams in France and that Warbs refused both to stay in Wales and hopefully stay at the Cardiff Blues. Whether that figure adds up to £700k is debatable, but from what I've heard his central contract is worth over £300k, so it wouldn't be far off. Now that the contract has been signed, why would he by lying?

You're very quick to dismiss everything, but so far the only things you've in-putted to this story is rumour and speculation. Surely information from Warburton's own agent has more validity!

We do have conflicting information from the report yesterday. Dullonien, considering the highly bitter environment between the parties and the constant stream of comment and statements coming out, I think you need to take a more cynical view on the media games that are being played to influence the public, especially when in this particular case rather fanciful figures are being floated about. There are plenty of reasons why an agent might be manipulating the truth in these circumstances.

Warburton won't play for the Cardiff Blues next season, not unless a new agreement is managed to be sorted out.

 

[Amiga500]

To be fair your missing Ducks point.

Duck doesn't have a point. Duck has an agenda.

WRU = bad. Regions = good. His interpretation of everything is made with that preconception firmly in place.

It wouldn't surprise me if Duck had relatives or friends somewhere in the regions setup that would stand to lose out if the WRU took total control.

Is this being done in line with cutting Cardiffs funding is his question?

No-one knows... as the participation agreement hasn't been sorted yet.

And also WRU can pull SW from Cardiff and put him in Dragons team etc.

I would imagine that would depend on the participation agreement. For instance if the Dragons decide to enter the Pro12 next year and the Blues don't...

Is this a sort of bully tactic by WRU?

It seriously undermines the regions ability to blackmail the WRU and also gives real strength to the WRU exerting control over the regions. Of that, there is no doubt. So, while it may be bad for the region's board, that does not make it bad for Welsh rugby or for the ongoing success of the regions.

IMO, a stronger and more direct WRU influence on things is 10 years overdue. I think they need to purchase the regions outright as soon as practically possible to get everyone pulling in the one direction.

Would you question why AWJ signed with region over WRU?

I would.

Were the WRU offering more money? Were the region offering more money? Were the contract conditions significantly different? Are there personal friendships involved? Does AWJ feel the regions do more for Welsh rugby than the WRU and decided to sign for the region because of this?

Theres lots of cloud and unanswered questions so it's not as clear as you make out

Of course. I know its not as clear as I'm making it.

I'm playing devils advocate to counter a quite frankly ludicrous position where the WRU can seemingly do no right unless they write the regions a series of enlarged blank cheques... and given how badly run the regions have been to date, such an action would be very foolish on behalf of the WRU.

 

[Amiga500]

We do have conflicting information from the report yesterday. Dullonien, considering the highly bitter environment between the parties and the constant stream of comment and statements coming out, I think you need to take a more cynical view on the media games that are being played to influence the public, especially when in this particular case rather fanciful figures are being floated about.

No one is telling the truth in this debacle. Not the WRU or the Regions and hence not the press either. Everything is being spun to suit the agendas.

There are plenty of reasons why an agent might be manipulating the truth in these circumstances.

These circumstances? Agents lie for a living dude!

Warburton won't play for the Cardiff Blues next season, not unless a new agreement is managed to be sorted out.

True that.


While I think central contracts are the way to go for Welsh rugby, this is a very hamfisted approach to it! The WRU should have put in place, and in the public realm, an organised framework rather than this seemingly haphazard/slapdash approach.


A question I would ask is - would the Welsh rugby fraternity have a problem with the WRU moving players between regions if they thought it aided (1)the development of that player, (2)the development of the team and hence other players in the region player was going to and (3)the development of other players in the region the player left by reducing competition for one place within that team?

 

[Amiga500]

Amiga...is that a photo of you?

I'm wearing new glasses these days and have shaved the goatee off.... :lol:

 

[Draggs]

Duck doesn't have a point. Duck has an agenda.

WRU = bad. Regions = good. His interpretation of everything is made with that preconception firmly in place.

It wouldn't surprise me if Duck had relatives or friends somewhere in the regions setup that would stand to lose out if the WRU took total control.



No-one knows... as the participation agreement hasn't been sorted yet.




I would imagine that would depend on the participation agreement. For instance if the Dragons decide to enter the Pro12 next year and the Blues don't...



It seriously undermines the regions ability to blackmail the WRU and also gives real strength to the WRU exerting control over the regions. Of that, there is no doubt. So, while it may be bad for the region's board, that does not make it bad for Welsh rugby or for the ongoing success of the regions.

IMO, a stronger and more direct WRU influence on things is 10 years overdue. I think they need to purchase the regions outright as soon as practically possible to get everyone pulling in the one direction.



I would.

Were the WRU offering more money? Were the region offering more money? Were the contract conditions significantly different? Are there personal friendships involved? Does AWJ feel the regions do more for Welsh rugby than the WRU and decided to sign for the region because of this?





Of course. I know its not as clear as I'm making it.

I'm playing devils advocate to counter a quite frankly ludicrous position where the WRU can seemingly do no right unless they write the regions a series of enlarged blank cheques... and given how badly run the regions have been to date, such an action would be very foolish on behalf of the WRU.

LOL. Are you Roger Lewis? The WRU don't have the money to do that. The most they can do is contract 5/6 players, and we have lost far more over the recent years, we can cope with that.

Also simplifying it to good/bad is juvenile. The WRU are trying to push their agenda over the regions, and ruin them. Call it good/bad whatever, but it won't end well. The WRU are overstating their financial power. If they do wrestle control from the regions, they will be ****ed quickly when the realise they can't afford to pay more than a handful of players.

 

[psychic duck]

LOL. Are you Roger Lewis? The WRU don't have the money to do that. The most they can do is contract 5/6 players, and we have lost far more over the recent years, we can cope with that.

Also simplifying it to good/bad is juvenile. The WRU are trying to push their agenda over the regions, and ruin them. Call it good/bad whatever, but it won't end well. The WRU are overstating their financial power. If they do wrestle control from the regions, they will be ****ed quickly when the realise they can't afford to pay more than a handful of players.

It's one of these really odd things about Roger Lewis. He was waving about and regularly referencing that PWC report, the same report he has refused to release in full to the public and the same report that also dismissed central contracts and control that he is hellbent on.

 

[Groundhog]

If Cardiff won't play him, the WRU will have to find a nice hard jigsaw or something like that to keep Warburton busy for the next year.

 

[Conal]

If Cardiff won't play him, the WRU will have to find a nice hard jigsaw or something like that to keep Warburton busy for the next year.

wasjig rugby federation

 

[Patchey]

Warbs tweeted earlier about his contract saying he was happy to be 'remaining in Wales'. i guess that suggests his central contract wouldn't allow him to go to an English club is he doesn't play at Blues?

 

[Bluemoon]

While I think central contracts are the way to go for Welsh rugby, this is a very hamfisted approach to it! The WRU should have put in place, and in the public realm, an organised framework rather than this seemingly haphazard/slapdash approach.

Agree. I think the frustration here is the WRU's approach. If a framework for CCs had been suggested (which not all that long ago was dismissed by the WRU as an option) then perhaps this move wouldn't have seen so political. Now it just seems like that are gathering leverage over the regions. There are a number of ways this contract could have been announced, structured or funded.

 

[Amiga500]

The WRU don't have the money to do that. The most they can do is contract 5/6 players, and we have lost far more over the recent years, we can cope with that.

The WRU are overstating their financial power. If they do wrestle control from the regions, they will be ****ed quickly when the realise they can't afford to pay more than a handful of players.

I would say a cursory glance at the annual finances strongly suggest otherwise.

In 2012/2013, the IRFU turnover was ~ £55million [â'¬66million @ $0.83/£1.00].
In 2012/2013, the WRU turnover was ~ £61million.

The IRFU are only really starting to make repayments on Lansdowne road. The WRU have paid off the bulk of the Millenium stadium.

The WRU do not see income from the regions in the same way the IRFU do from the provinces.


The capacity is there in Wales, of that I have no doubt. Whether the will is there is a different question altogether.

Also simplifying it to good/bad is juvenile.

I am not saying good/bad, IMO other posters on here see it as good/bad.

The WRU are trying to push their agenda over the regions, and ruin them.

Agreed. They've got sick of the two largest "bodies" (using RRW as the second body) pulling in diametrically the opposite direction for so long.

Call it good/bad whatever, but it won't end well.

I don't know what way it will end, but the journey is sure as hell painful.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Warbs tweeted earlier about his contract saying he was happy to be 'remaining in Wales'. i guess that suggests his central contract wouldn't allow him to go to an English club is he doesn't play at Blues?

From what I gather, centrally contracted players cannot play in the premiership (PRL/RFU rules).

 

[munstermuffin]

@Amiga I would be first to say Duck has agenda and we've had run ins in past but again I have to side with him.

You say about repayments for Stadiums and all that but I would say each would have various conditions and terms for example I'm not up to date on Millenium Stadium but IRFU only had repayments for a share along with FAI, Failte Ireland (Sports Sector), Government and lotto funding and other grants/private funding. My point is whole thing is hard to track.

Regards AWJ, if WRU can pay Warburton even near figure said then I'm 100% sure that they could easily match or outdo Ospreys offer for AWJ. My question is why AWJ signed with Ospreys and what is terms in central contracts offered.

Now I'm not saying RRW are perfect and I'm not saying WRU are totally wrong. My point is until clarity is out there it'll be messy.
Like what is the Central Contract system they are adapting?
In Ireland POC is on central contract but IRFU can't just pick him up and tell him play for Leinster next year because they own him. Why are WRU saying this about SW?
Also IRFU don't lease POC to Munster so what does this mean when WRU "lease" SW to Cardiff?
And regards funding I agree if RRW jump from Pro12 they should be cut of all funding from WRU but they haven't yet so why should their funding be cut?
The WRU are making it a lot messier than need be and until they come out with explanations things will only get worst and more tension between all parties