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Third Test: Australia v British and Irish Lions (06/07/13)

Too many people seem to hoping for the Lions to lose so they can say 'I told you so', rather than hoping the Lions win.
Pretty sad really.
 
When things are looking good everyones friends when things get tough we all revert to type....I blame the Welsh its because of them we had a hope of winning this Lions series and that got me all excited.
 
This thread has turned into a cluster**** i can't be arsed to properly read, so heres a quxik sumation on main issues from yours turely.

1. BOD dropping, I'd like to say I would be ok if it were for a player who was undoubtedly in better form but I probably wouldn't. Anyway if Davis and/or Roberts were truly playing well enough to warrant the dropping of the best center ever it wouldn't cause such an outrage. Thats the problem I don't see Gatland propping BOD for an Welsh player I see him ripping him for a less good Lion.

2. Going back to what this clueless arheshole knows, Gatland has made something along 11 changes across the 3 tests, some injury enforced are acceptable but for the lions making changes is just not helpful form test to test, so he deiced to go back to what he knows but frankly what he knows can;t beat the Aussies

anyway rip **** into me guys i'll be cheering on the lions despite the mess thats been made.
 
lynam1104 said:
This thread has turned into a cluster**** i can't be arsed to properly read, so heres a quxik sumation on main issues from yours turely.

1. BOD dropping, I'd like to say I would be ok if it were for a player who was undoubtedly in better form but I probably wouldn't. Anyway if Davis and/or Roberts were truly playing well enough to warrant the dropping of the best center ever it wouldn't cause such an outrage. Thats the problem I don't see Gatland propping BOD for an Welsh player I see him ripping him for a less good Lion.

2. Going back to what this clueless arheshole knows, Gatland has made something along 11 changes across the 3 tests, some injury enforced are acceptable but for the lions making changes is just not helpful form test to test, so he deiced to go back to what he knows but frankly what he knows can;t beat the Aussies

anyway rip **** into me guys i'll be cheering on the lions despite the mess thats been made.
Click to expand...

This. only 5 players have started all 3 tests even with injuries thats very poor.
 
munstermuffin said:
Was just been sure because you said Wales were more successful but England have 4 6N ***les with 1 slam and 1 World Cup with 2 final appearances and I think that better than 3 6Nations with 2 slams and in my opinion 2000-2006 was alot tougher than recent times (That includes Mike Ruddocks feat). But again it irrelevant
And it's simply put Gatland has put on a gamble and has his reputation on the line. Regardless of the result this tour has gone down as 1 of the more flat and boring tours no fun. But tomorrow we will find out was there a master stroke or did Lady Luck leave when was needed more than ever?
Click to expand...

Wales have been more successful than England in recent times though. 3 six nations ***les (2 of them grand slams) and semi final place in WC , from 2005-13. England on the other hand have only claimed one six nations ***le since the end of 2003. Gatland has done a hell of a lot of good for Wales' development whilst coaching them to championship wins.

Long story short...What I'm trying to say is, this is what the selected squad should have been for saturday:

1. Paul James (Wales)
2. Richard Hibbard (Wales)
3. Adam Jones (Wales)
4. Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales)
5. Ian Evans (Wales)
6. Dan Lydiate (Wales)
7. Justin Tipuric (Wales)
8. Toby Faletau (Wales)
9. Mike Philips (Wales)
10. Dan Biggar (Wales)
11. Shane Williams (Wales)
12. Jamie Roberts (Wales)
13. Jonathan Davies (Wales)
14. George North (Wales)
15. Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)

Bench: Bevington (Wales), Mitchell (Wales), Owens (Wales), J King (Wales), Ryan Jones (Wales), Lloyd Williams (Wales), Hook (Wales), Cuthbert (Wales)

What do you guys think? I want to hear especially from the English and Irish here, I think they're gonna love my intelligent choices.
 
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Ospreylian said:
Wales have been more successful than England in recent times though. 3 six nations ***les (2 of them grand slams) and semi final place in WC , from 2005-13. England on the other hand have only claimed one six nations ***le since the end of 2003. Gatland has done a hell of a lot of good for Wales' development whilst coaching them to championship wins.

Long story short...What I'm trying to say is, this is what the selected squad should have been for saturday:

1. Paul James (Wales)
2. Richard Hibbard (Wales)
3. Adam Jones (Wales)
4. Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales)
5. Ian Evans (Wales)
6. Dan Lydiate (Wales)
7. Justin Tipuric (Wales)
8. Toby Faletau (Wales)
9. Mike Philips (Wales)
10. Dan Biggar (Wales)
11. Shane Williams (Wales)
12. Jamie Roberts (Wales)
13. Jonathan Davies (Wales)
14. George North (Wales)
15. Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)

Bench: Bevington (Wales), Mitchell (Wales), Owens (Wales), J King (Wales), Ryan Jones (Wales), Lloyd Williams (Wales), Hook (Wales), Cuthbert (Wales)

What do you guys think? I want to hear especially from the English and Irish here, I think they're gonna love my intelligent choices.
Click to expand...
I think that's similar to the side that we gave a spanking in the 6N.
 
Wales have been the better side for the last 8 years.England were better for the 25 years before that and Wales were better for the 10 years before that.Anything earlier is before my time.:D
 
Whatever, at least England has Andy Mur-

Oh, wait I mean Chris Ho-

Oh no. Well at least we're great at football...

No? Well, I mean we have one of the best footballers in the world, Gareth Bal-

Erm...

We are the best at entertaining! We've got the wonderful Tom Jone-

No wait, not English either...

Okay, beat this:

Gareth-Gates-06-f-01.jpg
 
Ospreylian said:
Wales have been more successful than England in recent times though. 3 six nations ***les (2 of them grand slams) and semi final place in WC , from 2005-13. England on the other hand have only claimed one six nations ***le since the end of 2003. Gatland has done a hell of a lot of good for Wales' development whilst coaching them to championship wins.
Click to expand...

Must not feed troll... bugger it.

Interesting you chose 2005. Since then Wales have placed, on average, 3.25. England... 2.88. Boom and Bust versus constant mediocrity.

If one looks at it from the start of the Six Nations, in 2000, (I wonder why you didn't...) England placed, on average, 2.61. Wales 3.77.

Four wins and one Grand Slam to England; three and three to Wales and one Wooden Spoon. England - two RWC finals, one win. Wales - one semi-final.

Gatland win ratio- 50%. Lancaster - 63%, Johnson 55%, Ashton 54% [England Coaches simultaneous with Gatland]

Since 2005 Wales have beaten Australia twice and not beaten the All Blacks or Springboks. England four, one, and one win(s) respectively.

Since 2000: Wales- 2, 0, 0. England 9, 3, 6.

----

Yes, I had nothing better to do. Oh, and good luck to the Lions tomorrow.
 
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Ospreylian said:
Meh, they were luring the other teams into a false sense of security and then.. BAM!! 30 points to England's 3 :p
Click to expand...
Just to throw it out there:
Ireland beat England by 30 points in 2007
England beat New Zealand by 17 points
Wales got beaten by Samoa

Regardless what does that have to do with it???

If for example Davies was awful and Wales beat England 100-0 and England beat Ireland and BOD was brilliant does that make Davies the better player as his team won???
And not saying either was awful just giving example.

As in Wales were awful in Autumn Internationals loosing 4 from 4. But this team is in the current not the past and I'd have no problem if BOD was dropped fairly as I said if Tuilagi was named as 13 I'd say fair enough he played super against Rebels and is in form but Welsh lads (Phillips, Roberts, Hibbard) got starts on name not on earning the jersey and Lydiate and Davies are retained for same reasons
 
I keep hearing "but Wales beat England" or variations thereof but the main problem with this argument is: this isn't bloody England we're playing here! Its Australia!

And last time I checked the record for ten out of fifteen in this squad against Australia stands at a miserable 0 - 5 in favour of Australia in the past 18 months. And that is being charitable.

I don't want the Lions to lose but I think picking a squad based purely on how they did against a team whose playing style is probably diametrically opposed to how Australia play is absolute folly! Absolute insanity! The fact that he's picked most of his own Wales squad only compounds things. Surely Gatland should have heeded the lessons of 1993 and 2005 and thrown caution to the wind.

If Gatland and Wyn Jones pulls this off then I'll doff my hat but if they don't and Australia walk away with this then not only will Gatland have thrown away the series on the basis of selfish personal preference for Wales, he'd have made this one of the most divisive Lions tours since...well since a previous coach stacked his team with players from one nation (2005 then ;-) )

EDIT: Okay I've come around now to Wales' way of thinking so I believe we should have picked ten Englishmen because of how they trounced Scotland during the 6N. There. I said it. Its been building inside of me the more I hear this..er... "out of the box" thinking emanating from Wales right now. Justify selection on the basis of how your team beat another team whose playing style is the complete opposite to Australia! Simples!
 
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Another reason in favour of BOD is the Welsh team have a horrid tendency to fade in the last five minutes and concede a stupid late try in previous games against Australia. Want to stop something like that, well maybe a slightly less exhausting game plan would help, but you also want cool, experienced heads, people who can speak and calm down where necessary, gee up where necessary - people like BOD. People talk a lot about athleticism, power, tactics, skill, understanding etc.etc. a huge part of Test Rugby is in the mind. Who's hungrier for it, who's calmer, who's sharper... no one was hungrier than BOD for this. No one's more of a big game animal. I hope I'm wrong, but I really do think this is a big mistake - people cast it in terms of their attacking form, but big games are often tight affairs, the game plan is an attritional one, and defensive security and experience are huge factors in games like this, which is hugely in O'Driscoll's favour.

Hopefully the bench will tip things towards us instead.
 
Peat said:
Another reason in favour of BOD is the Welsh team have a horrid tendency to fade in the last five minutes and concede a stupid late try in previous games against Australia. Want to stop something like that, well maybe a slightly less exhausting game plan would help, but you also want cool, experienced heads, people who can speak and calm down where necessary, gee up where necessary - people like BOD. People talk a lot about athleticism, power, tactics, skill, understanding etc.etc. a huge part of Test Rugby is in the mind. Who's hungrier for it, who's calmer, who's sharper... no one was hungrier than BOD for this. No one's more of a big game animal. I hope I'm wrong, but I really do think this is a big mistake - people cast it in terms of their attacking form, but big games are often tight affairs, the game plan is an attritional one, and defensive security and experience are huge factors in games like this, which is hugely in O'Driscoll's favour.

Hopefully the bench will tip things towards us instead.
Click to expand...

The famous "test animal" as Geech would say, well BOD is certainly one of those.
 
Pity SHers need that video to show how good BOD was.

Best centre ever - nearest competition was Umaga. And we know how that ended. Still shameful.

I think it's a bad mistake to drop him. He's clearly the captain, no matter what the selectors think - same thing goes for Ireland when Heaslip took over. Without his defence the opposition attack will crack Davies at will. At this stage BOD is a minimalist in attack - he only wants the ball when he knows he can make the difference, otherwise he's just directing the operation across the pitch.

Overall the Lions needed to set up for attack, but they've gone for grunt. It may win, but if O'Connor gets on with AAC there will be several tries for the home team.
 

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