Third Test: Australia v British and Irish Lions (06/07/13)

[munstermuffin]

Waldrom is hardly a stand out performer for England - he simply filled a gap while we found our future 8.

Typical - always trying to get more English lads in

 

[Draggs]

And this is the guy who's currently leading the best Northern Hemisphere poster award!

I think those are ground for removal there...

 

[SuperEagle]

Enough of this hooping and a-hollering and back and forth arguing. Like it or loathe it, the selection decision has been made.

I personally believe that JD shouldn't be anywhere near the test 23, but I don't make the call and I'm still going to support him (and pray he doesn't have yet another "brainfail") on Saturday.

Let's talk tactics.

The Lions' tactics in the final test will be to get Phillips, O'Brien and Roberts to run at O'Connor - I think WG has identified him as a weak defensive link. The Lions will try and batter the Aussies for 50 mins in the tight and at scrumtime and then will bring on their more skillful and dynamic players (Mako, Youngs, Manu, Cole and Murray) towards the end to try and stretch the game and tear the Aussies a new one.

It might just work, but it needs the tight 5 to put in a hell of a shift to clear the way so the big lads can get to O'Connor

It will also need very cool heads towards the end and it will be fascinating to see if our boys can pull it off.

The Aussies will be throwing the kitchen sink at us in the last quarter. I just pray that the Lions remember to actually play some rugby at the end and don't go into their "defend, kick, defend, kick" bunker mentality like they did in the first test.

Looking forward to the showdown.

 

[Peat]

From a neutral;
The common opinion amongst me and my mates her in NZ is that Roberts is the best midfield back you have in that team, and would be up there with Smith & DeVilliers as the best in the world.

IMO (and I think i'm safe in saying, in a lot of NZers opinion) BOD has not been in top echelon of midfield backs for some time now.
The guy was invisible last week.

Can you BOD supporters put your hand on heart and say that BOD has made a visible difference to the team on this tour?

Absolutely.

25 tackles, none missed, against a team whose main danger lies in going wide and their outside backs is an incredibly good return. What would we have had without him? We got a little whiff of that with Davies foray into the 13 channel that result in the try. And I don't want to be beating Davies over the head with this, he's a good, maybe excellent, defensive international centre - but he makes mistakes from time to time. BOD's not mistake free, but I can't remember his last one. He is a world class defender and has shown it.

This is all the more important when considering Wales' record against Australia. There was a lot of talk pre-tour in the press about how all we had to do was reinforce the Welsh with the best parts of the rest, get the players in who added what was missing. A cursory look shows Wales have real difficulties holding Australia to less than 20 points, something which always causes difficulty. Gatland had the chance to a world class defensive 13 - one of the hardest positions - and hasn't.

 

[Veal]

Let's talk tactics.

The Lions' tactics in the final test will be to get Phillips, O'Brien and Roberts to run at O'Connor - I think WG has identified him as a weak defensive link. The Lions will try and batter the Aussies for 50 mins in the tight and at scrumtime and then will bring on their more skillful and dynamic players (Mako, Youngs, Manu, Cole and Murray) towards the end to try and stretch the game and tear the Aussies a new one.

O'Conner is not a weak defensive kink. He's had blokes like Nonu, Keiran Reid and De'villiers running at him for the past four years in Super Rugby and Tri-Nations tests. His defence is one of the reasons he jas been picked at 10 over Quade Cooper who is a toll gate. With George Smith shadowing the open side off the set piece, I doubt the Lions will attack down that channel.
More likely Roberts will hit it up the middle to get over the gain line and generate quick second and third phase options which would get dangerous. Leilifano's job....shut Roberts down early.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Absolutely.

25 tackles, none missed, against a team whose main danger lies in going wide and their outside backs is an incredibly good return. What would we have had without him? We got a little whiff of that with Davies foray into the 13 channel that result in the try. And I don't want to be beating Davies over the head with this, he's a good, maybe excellent, defensive international centre - but he makes mistakes from time to time. BOD's not mistake free, but I can't remember his last one. He is a world class defender and has shown it.

This is all the more important when considering Wales' record against Australia. There was a lot of talk pre-tour in the press about how all we had to do was reinforce the Welsh with the best parts of the rest, get the players in who added what was missing. A cursory look shows Wales have real difficulties holding Australia to less than 20 points, something which always causes difficulty. Gatland had the chance to a world class defensive 13 - one of the hardest positions - and hasn't.

I'll take your word for the tackle count.

IMO O'Driscoll was pretty much invisible last week.
And if I'm honest; I haven't seen the guy do much in the last few seasons to even warrant selection in the squad (granted I don't see as much NH rugby as you NH posters do)

As i say; just my opinion. Maybe my viewpoint is slanted against O'Driscoll as I have never seen the guy perform well since the '01 Lions tour.
Certainly never performs well when he plays against the ABs for Ireland.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

O'Conner is not a weak defensive kink. He's had blokes like Nonu, Keiran Reid and De'villiers running at him for the past four years in Super Rugby and Tri-Nations tests. His defence is one of the reasons he jas been picked at 10 over Quade Cooper who is a toll gate. With George Smith shadowing the open side off the set piece, I doubt the Lions will attack down that channel.
More likely Roberts will hit it up the middle to get over the gain line and generate quick second and third phase options which would get dangerous. Leilifano's job....shut Roberts down early.

I have to agree with this, if gatland has identified O'Connor as a weak defensive link then he's going to have a bad day. o'connors problem is learning to control the game like a larkham or carter. I think they'll be more likely to rush up on him when he receives the ball rather than run the ball at him.

does anyone else think that north has a bit of white line fever? his body language tells me he doesn't like marking up against izzy and he's shown signs of frustration in the last 2 games.

we need to go into the break with a 10 point buffer, easier said than done, but I agree with SuperEagle that the Lions have good impact from the bench.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I'll take your word for the tackle count.

IMO O'Driscoll was pretty much invisible last week.
And if I'm honest; I haven't seen the guy do much in the last few seasons to even warrant selection in the squad (granted I don't see as much NH rugby as you NH posters do)

As i say; just my opinion. Maybe my viewpoint is slanted against O'Driscoll as I have never seen the guy perform well since the '01 Lions tour.
Certainly never performs well when he plays against the ABs for Ireland.

You've never seen him perform well since 2001? Lmfao. K.

If there's one person in this Lions squad who can turn a game, as Willie John McBride said, it's Brian O'Driscoll. At the very least Tuilagi should be playing 13 and Davies 12 since they've both had game time.

 

[dullonien]

I'll take your word for the tackle count.

IMO O'Driscoll was pretty much invisible last week.
And if I'm honest; I haven't seen the guy do much in the last few seasons to even warrant selection in the squad (granted I don't see as much NH rugby as you NH posters do)

As i say; just my opinion. Maybe my viewpoint is slanted against O'Driscoll as I have never seen the guy perform well since the '01 Lions tour.
Certainly never performs well when he plays against the ABs for Ireland.

Troll alert!

If there's one person in this Lions squad who can turn a game, it's George North

Fixed that for you.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I'll take your word for the tackle count.

IMO O'Driscoll was pretty much invisible last week.
And if I'm honest; I haven't seen the guy do much in the last few seasons to even warrant selection in the squad (granted I don't see as much NH rugby as you NH posters do)

As i say; just my opinion. Maybe my viewpoint is slanted against O'Driscoll as I have never seen the guy perform well since the '01 Lions tour.
Certainly never performs well when he plays against the ABs for Ireland.

Yeah O'Driscoll doesn't get much adulation over here because he has never fronted against the AB's, so we hear all the hype and then see him play and the two don't quite match up. However, if you had watched much NH club rugby you would have seen he has been pretty brilliant during the whole decade. I haven't seen as much as the NH boys have obviously, but I lived in the UK for two years and watched a fair bit of 6 nations and H cup and the guy is pretty much as good as advertised.
On the whole selection furore, to give a neutral's view on it (if that is wanted at all): It is pretty obvious Gatland is under massive pressure (as any Lions coach would be heading into a do or die match) and has chosen the players he knows and trusts. Is there anything unusual or underhand about this? Definitely not, but it does raise the issue of whether a national coach who also coaches the Lions can be truly impartial. I can sort of see what he is doing with the loose forwards, didn't O'Brien play at 7 in the WC when Ireland beat Aus? Although the weather played its part on that occasion I suppose. But the midfield had me scratching my head for sure. None of us see these blokes at training so I can only assume Roberts is fully fit and ready to go, otherwise it is a huge gamble to throw him in after a few weeks on the sidelines. Personally I would have played O'Driscoll at 12 with Tuilagi at 13. In the same way that I would be happy to play Conrad Smith at 12 outside DC and trust that he could cope, I'm sure O'Driscoll has enough smarts to slot in there, especially with Sexton at 10. Tuilagi has looked great all tour, and in the same way Ma'a Nonu has given the aussies trouble over the years I'm sure Manu could do a similar job. I'd be much happier having Sexton/BoD/Tuilagi who are all match hardened and fit than taking a punt on Roberts and pairing him with Davies (who only looked good in the match against the Reds which was wide open and nothing like a test).

 

[j'nuh]

I'll take your word for the tackle count.

IMO O'Driscoll was pretty much invisible last week.
And if I'm honest; I haven't seen the guy do much in the last few seasons to even warrant selection in the squad (granted I don't see as much NH rugby as you NH posters do)

As i say; just my opinion. Maybe my viewpoint is slanted against O'Driscoll as I have never seen the guy perform well since the '01 Lions tour.
Certainly never performs well when he plays against the ABs for Ireland.

And jesus, those are only some of his international highlights...

 

[mochyn]

You've never seen him perform well since 2001? Lmfao. K.

If there's one person in this Lions squad who can turn a game, as Willie John McBride said, it's Brian O'Driscoll. At the very least Tuilagi should be playing 13 and Davies 12 since they've both had game time.

Watching the last 6 nations game between Wales and England, Roberts owned Tuilagi. Tuilagi was very one dimensional

 

[Prestwick]

The entire business is madness. Sheer madness.

Gatland will rue the day he fell in love with the men who hail from the valleys...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Watching the last 6 nations game between Wales and England, Roberts owned Tuilagi. Tuilagi was very one dimensional​

....sigh.
and as I've said, stop basing the guys career on one match. England use him poorly (but even still he's had a pretty good international career so far). He has a much more rounded skill set than many believe and has shown that for Tigers. He's shown glimpses of it for England (i.e. his involvement in the three tries vs New Zealand) and has shown glimpses when given a shot on the Lions tour.

Also you're acting as if Roberts isn't one dimensional - there's nothing particularly wrong with being one dimensional if that dimension is pretty damn good.​

 

[Prestwick]

Watching the last 6 nations game between Wales and England, Roberts owned Tuilagi. Tuilagi was very one dimensional​

....sigh.
and as I've said, stop basing the guys career on one match. England use him poorly (but even still he's had a pretty good international career so far). He has a much more rounded skill set than many believe and has shown that for Tigers. He's shown glimpses of it for England (i.e. his involvement in the three tries vs New Zealand) and has shown glimpses when given a shot on the Lions tour.

Also you're acting as if Roberts isn't one dimensional - there's nothing particularly wrong with being one dimensional if that dimension is pretty damn good.

I'd agree and I'd go further in saying that the pairing of Davies & Roberts was very one dimensional, both against all six nations opposition (apart from England) and against Australia in their last five or six games playing for Wales.​

 

[icr9214]

Lads I know this is probably false but on twitter a few are saying Tuilagi is out. Then saying he's in but all in all 1 thing has to be said all this ddivide and debate over team will do no good for lions who could be on to a hiding

If Tuilagi is out to me that would be a little fishy. Not that I am a suspicious person but if you imagine the debate the BOD fiasco has started here and on other forums imagine the heat on Gatland. As I have said previously Tuilagi and Roberts have some similarities in there game (although I truly believe Manu has the nod over him going on recent form over the past season) and to me whoever you go with you have to compliment the bench with something a bit different should you need to change.
BOD should have always been involved in the test squad, but if all of a sudden he is in and Tuilagi out, wouldn't that be a massive coincidence.

 

[KAPman]

agree there, tommy bowe hasnt done much to earn his spot either. cuthbert and maitland have been better in his position on this tour.
It's sad that gatland has gone for this one dimensional game plan right from the start of this tour, and that he has picked players who fit it, and has not picked on form.
A lions tour is about earning your test spot through form on tour, and being the best in your position, and that ethos seems to have wavered a bit sadly.
The tension has been there in the 2 tests so far, but its really sad the quality of rugby that is being played, with both teams seem to be playing not to lose n putting empasis on defence, rather than trying to play attacking rugby with an aim to win. (Genia and Beale have been the exception)
This dull hit-up game plan of gatland's has never worked for wales in trying to beat australia, and not sure it will work against them on saturday, but will see.

 

[Prestwick]

O'Conner is not a weak defensive kink. He's had blokes like Nonu, Keiran Reid and De'villiers running at him for the past four years in Super Rugby and Tri-Nations tests. His defence is one of the reasons he jas been picked at 10 over Quade Cooper who is a toll gate. With George Smith shadowing the open side off the set piece, I doubt the Lions will attack down that channel.
More likely Roberts will hit it up the middle to get over the gain line and generate quick second and third phase options which would get dangerous. Leilifano's job....shut Roberts down early.

I must respectfully disagree about O'Connor. At the very least he is uncomfortable at ten for Australia for both tests and with the boot his confidence is non-existant. I'd call him a "Grahame Hick" kind of guy: excellent at club level but will never quite make it as high as his more illustrious peers (Ashley-Cooper, Beale, Cooper, etc) in the backs and that is simply down to confidence.

Seriously, I was there in 2010 and the poor boy fell apart within the first ten minutes. And when I say fell apart I mean visibly wilted under the boos and jeers of the Twickenham crowd. God knows how he'd cope in Top 14 rugby where crowd..."interaction" goes beyond a few boos and choice words.

 

[icr9214]

I'll take your word for the tackle count.

IMO O'Driscoll was pretty much invisible last week.
And if I'm honest; I haven't seen the guy do much in the last few seasons to even warrant selection in the squad (granted I don't see as much NH rugby as you NH posters do)

As i say; just my opinion. Maybe my viewpoint is slanted against O'Driscoll as I have never seen the guy perform well since the '01 Lions tour.
Certainly never performs well when he plays against the ABs for Ireland.

The tackle count is fairly accurate (there are plenty of stats out there on line to sort of verify that). And in some ways I agree with what you are saying about the centres (not just BOD) being invisible in the tests, but to me that sparks concern in regards to the game plan. There does not appear to be any kind of width in our game and I can only assume that comes down to game plan. That being the case the centres are going to be pretty much in the background save the odd turnover etc.
If that is the case then not only is that stupid and negative play, it is not good enough to beat the Wallabies.
The Lions suffered with possession and again that was down to constantly kicking possession away to one of the most Dangerous backlines in world rugby????? I caant make sense of that. If your going to employ those tactics you need solid defenders and they don't get much more solid than BOD. Last test 14 tackles, 0 missed. On the other hand J Davies 7 tackles, 3 missed. An obvious chink in the armour.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Could someon source these rumours about Tuilagi?