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Third Test: Australia v British and Irish Lions (06/07/13)

I like to pop onto this forum for some general rugby chat, but i always find that following a big match (especially if Wales win) there is far too much of this going around in these threads. I don't even know what to call it, but i can't help myself getting annoyed at empty arguments and completely ridiculous assertions backed by no knowledge whatsoever. People state things like they're fact, but often quote complete and utter b*****s. Can't seem to hack it for more than a few days. Maybe i'm just wrong with my opinions, and am just another biased Welshman so I shall be taking my leave again! enjoy this, the worst thread of the year so far. tarah!

Until next time.
 
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osulli mi said:
"Load of ****e"-everyone else.
Gatland's selection may not be biased, but I really hate his selection criteria. Warrenball has done no good in the last two tests, as Oz outplayed us on both occasions despite having a really strong team on paper. Whatever way you look at it, picking 10 Welsh players to start was a moronic decision from Gatland. What a simple way to completely villify yourself. I really don't feel the nice together Lions vibe at all, instead I feel really ****, that in the culmination of an event which only comes once every four years, none of the guys I watch the Lions to see perform at a unique event, alongside the BEST players from the other home nations are involved, despite deserving some sort of spot. To be honest, winning with a team like this would not mean much for me. Of course I will have less interest in a game in which there are very few Irish lads involved.
I really can't see a reason to trust Gatland's decisions. Call them brave if you wan't, but don't complain if I call them moronic, because I find implying that the Lions team is bigger than the Irish and English players who didn't get a look in, our talismans, and ultimately the reason we watch the Lions tour insulting. I guarentee the Welsh posters would be just as ****** off if the same thing had happened for you. Without doubt Wales has the best national side of the home nations, but the gulf isn't as huge as this lions team implies.
Gatland has not picked on form, the justification of matching up partnerships is weak, as that would mean bringing in O'Driscoll to connect with Sexton. So what has he based the selection on?
I don't see why we should move on, after all we have another four years yet, to recover.
EDIT: I just want to add, that I hope the guys who do play this weekend win. I'll still watch the game, and couldn't bring myself to wish harm on any of our players. I can't condemn a guy for being picked.
Click to expand...
If you look at the team I picked earlier in the thread you'll notice I picked BOD.My biggest gripe is the lack of a genuine openside.I think that only Halfpenny,Bowe,North,Sexton,A Jones and AW Jones were certainties after last week.All other positions were up for debate.There were 11 England players picked for one test in NZ in 93.I was p*ssed off,not at the selection but at the powers at be in the Welsh game.I was still fully behind the Lions though.Let's see what happens.If they lose then by all means let Gats have it (I'll probably join in as his differs a good deal from mine) but in the meantime let's get behind the boys.
 
icr9214 said:
Seems a pretty bold statement to make. England have gone through somewhat of a revival over the past few years and some young players have finally been given the opportunity to shine. Had a pretty good six nations with some good results and yes were hammered by Wales and just could not respond (forget the ref issue as they would have lost anyway I believe). But you cannot argue with the achievements of this youthful team in such a short period of time.
Obviously in your opinion the world rankings do not mean that much ??? but that aside the results since 2011 speak for themselves.
If we are to take into consideration the recent form of the teams do we not consider the performances against Argentina, Samoa, etc etc their worst losing streak since I don't know when (8 in a row I think it was). All that on the back of winning a grand slam in 2012. What happened there!
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I am not having a go at England I was just making the point that AT THE MOMENT Wales are better ! Hence why there's more Welsh players in the squad ! If in four years time it's the other way around and its full of English players you want see me moaning ! I get behind the Lions cause that's what they are I don't care what Nationality they are, they are in because the coaches believe they are the best players we have ! All this the Welsh coach picks 10 Welshmen cause he knows them better rubbish is shocking ?
 
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Lets not beat around the bush here folks. Do you think its a coincidence that so many Welsh players were picked for the last game? No it isn't. As soon as the final whistle blows Gatland is the Welsh coach again. He saw what happened Graham Henry in 2001 and decided to hedge his bets and at least get his Welsh squad on his side. He won't be coaching any of the other players again so its best to keep those you have to work with happy as far as he is concerned.


Throughout the tour you have players playing well and some having poor games. Gatland chopped and changed the team a lot, making loads of changes from the first 2 tests. And what are we left with? 10 Welsh players! Form doesn't come into it for the Welsh players. Lets face it, they were always going to start.


We hear about it being a simple case of needing combinations. Well they had over a month to get everyone up to speed. Wales play a straight forward style of rugby (literally) that isn't too hard for others to understand. BOD and Tuilagi played one match together and combined well. South Africa struggled to contain BOD and Roberts on the 09 tour. The center was one area SA were really outclassed in and everyone was expected Gatland to renew the partnership but Gatland has other plans.


Gatlands cream has risen to the top because that was the plan all along. Win, lose or draw his job remains intact and he has boosted his Welsh players belief that they're the best around. What about his CV and pride I hear you say. Well if he went for the best team they could still lose and he would be in danger of losing the series after going 1 up and also in danger of upsetting his Welsh players. So he has hedged his bets and willing to sacrifice a better chance of winning to guarantee satisfaction in the valleys. Its called being pragmatic. And if people think thats a little OTT, well Quade Cooper isn't playing for Australia. Deans could play him and strengthen Australia but he is thinking long term also and Coopers negative influence ie Deans is being pragmatic. The difference here is Gatland is in charge of the Lions and should only be thinking about the Lions.


I've nothing against Welsh players BTW, its not their fault. If it was English or Irish I'd be saying the same. Gatland is the problem.
 
Just out of curiosity was there an advert in Wales to post here like the F are all Welsh posters coming from??
:p
 
profitius said:
Lets not beat around the bush here folks. Do you think its a coincidence that so many Welsh players were picked for the last game? No it isn't. As soon as the final whistle blows Gatland is the Welsh coach again. He saw what happened Graham Henry in 2001 and decided to hedge his bets and at least get his Welsh squad on his side. He won't be coaching any of the other players again so its best to keep those you have to work with happy as far as he is concerned.


Throughout the tour you have players playing well and some having poor games. Gatland chopped and changed the team a lot, making loads of changes from the first 2 tests. And what are we left with? 10 Welsh players! Form doesn't come into it for the Welsh players. Lets face it, they were always going to start.


We hear about it being a simple case of needing combinations. Well they had over a month to get everyone up to speed. Wales play a straight forward style of rugby (literally) that isn't too hard for others to understand. BOD and Tuilagi played one match together and combined well. South Africa struggled to contain BOD and Roberts on the 09 tour. The center was one area SA were really outclassed in and everyone was expected Gatland to renew the partnership but Gatland has other plans.


Gatlands cream has risen to the top because that was the plan all along. Win, lose or draw his job remains intact and he has boosted his Welsh players belief that they're the best around. What about his CV and pride I hear you say. Well if he went for the best team they could still lose and he would be in danger of losing the series after going 1 up and also in danger of upsetting his Welsh players. So he has hedged his bets and willing to sacrifice a better chance of winning to guarantee satisfaction in the valleys. Its called being pragmatic. And if people think thats a little OTT, well Quade Cooper isn't playing for Australia. Deans could play him and strengthen Australia but he is thinking long term also and Coopers negative influence ie Deans is being pragmatic. The difference here is Gatland is in charge of the Lions and should only be thinking about the Lions.


I've nothing against Welsh players BTW, its not their fault. If it was English or Irish I'd be saying the same. Gatland is the problem.
Click to expand...


You cannot be serious!!!!

Obviously your sarcasm is intended to wind up people?

There are so many people involved in the coaching staff to make these decisions, and not least Andy irvine, who would be too honourable to just go along with your flight of fancy for it to be anywhere near the reality!!!

He has done this because he believes it is the right thing to do in the circumstances and Saturday will prove whether he is right or wrong!!

Personally, BOD was on the tour in the first place not because of his form this year but because there was a huge sentimental demand for him but, and more importantly, there was no one about who was any better. He has not performed on this tour and I cannot believe he is putting his "elderly" body through this tour never mind another season. However, there is no one better and he should have played.

The back row is a *******s and this will make the line out, already crap even more crap!

Hibbard should be on the bench and Youngs throwing in to give us some chance as the difference between them in the scrum does not merit the change particulary with Corbs back....but how long will he last!

Scrum half is difficult as Youngs blew his chance and Murray has had too little top game time to back up his cameo of last week......oh for Care!!

Will they win...........take a huge effort and luck to do it as Aussies should be that bit stronger than last week and surely cannot make the same mistakes?

Aussies by good margin..........

Does this back up your abuse of Gatland and accusations of Welsh bias..............No!

Just that he is a poor manager and should not have been chosen as his only game plan was never ever going to be the winning game plan...........looking forward to the various post tour books already!!
 
profitius said:
Lets not beat around the bush here folks. Do you think its a coincidence that so many Welsh players were picked for the last game? No it isn't. As soon as the final whistle blows Gatland is the Welsh coach again. He saw what happened Graham Henry in 2001 and decided to hedge his bets and at least get his Welsh squad on his side. He won't be coaching any of the other players again so its best to keep those you have to work with happy as far as he is concerned.


Throughout the tour you have players playing well and some having poor games. Gatland chopped and changed the team a lot, making loads of changes from the first 2 tests. And what are we left with? 10 Welsh players! Form doesn't come into it for the Welsh players. Lets face it, they were always going to start.


We hear about it being a simple case of needing combinations. Well they had over a month to get everyone up to speed. Wales play a straight forward style of rugby (literally) that isn't too hard for others to understand. BOD and Tuilagi played one match together and combined well. South Africa struggled to contain BOD and Roberts on the 09 tour. The center was one area SA were really outclassed in and everyone was expected Gatland to renew the partnership but Gatland has other plans.


Gatlands cream has risen to the top because that was the plan all along. Win, lose or draw his job remains intact and he has boosted his Welsh players belief that they're the best around. What about his CV and pride I hear you say. Well if he went for the best team they could still lose and he would be in danger of losing the series after going 1 up and also in danger of upsetting his Welsh players. So he has hedged his bets and willing to sacrifice a better chance of winning to guarantee satisfaction in the valleys. Its called being pragmatic. And if people think thats a little OTT, well Quade Cooper isn't playing for Australia. Deans could play him and strengthen Australia but he is thinking long term also and Coopers negative influence ie Deans is being pragmatic. The difference here is Gatland is in charge of the Lions and should only be thinking about the Lions.


I've nothing against Welsh players BTW, its not their fault. If it was English or Irish I'd be saying the same. Gatland is the problem.
Click to expand...

Whilst I do think that Gatland has gone with what he knows in some areas, I don't think he's done it in order to keep his Welsh players on side. Davies wouldn't have thrown a wobbly if he was left out for BOD, Lydiate wouldn't have either, and Hibbard was already overlooked for the first two tests.

If all he wanted was to make sure the Welsh camp was harmonious after the Lions tour, he wouldn't have omitted Shaun Edwards from the coaching team!

There was a month to build combinations, but in the centre especially, that was hugely disrupted by injuries to Tuilagi and Roberts. None of the combinations had much time to gel. The first game against the Barbarians was hampered by finals as well, meaning that neither Tuilagi or BOD could realistically be involved, and the final couple of warm-ups involved wrapping BOD and Davies in cotton wool. I still lay a little blame on Gatland for this though, because Davies and Roberts were played together again after the Barbarians game, and I don't understand what was to gain from doing that.

Finally, comparisons between this tour and Henry's 2001 tour should be avoided. Henry made it clear from the time he took the Wales job that he didn't believe Welsh players were up to the task, hence grannygate. The Lions tour simply drove this home. Henry was mostly right though, the Welsh players at the time were mostly not up to it, whilst England especially had arguably their greatest crop of players.

Gatland's only priority at the moment is the Lions, I can almost guarantee that. He'd be incredibly short sighted not to understand that a Lions tour win on his CV wouldn't be anything by good once his time with Wales has finished.

I'm happy for people to criticise the tactics, and some of the selections (when is that not the case?), but this OTT reaction is akin to people calling ref's biased and accusing them of cheating.
 
Sod it. Line out goes well, dominate scrum, smash the rucks. Contain George Smith. Welsh Lions to do what they did to England. The lions by 10 or a cheeky draw.
 
Saintjay said:
Sod it. Line out goes well, dominate scrum, smash the rucks. Contain George Smith. Welsh Lions to do what they did to England. The lions by 10 or a cheeky draw.
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I think that in the event of a draw, the tour should be decided by a dance-off - First up, Adam Jones versus Benn Robinson
 
HenryChinaski said:
I think that in the event of a draw, the tour should be decided by a dance-off - First up, Adam Jones versus Benn Robinson
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To this

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/12VUjgYMm1U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Id pay to see that. Maybe
 
profitius said:
Lets not beat around the bush here folks. Do you think its a coincidence that so many Welsh players were picked for the last game? No it isn't. As soon as the final whistle blows Gatland is the Welsh coach again. He saw what happened Graham Henry in 2001 and decided to hedge his bets and at least get his Welsh squad on his side. He won't be coaching any of the other players again so its best to keep those you have to work with happy as far as he is concerned.


Throughout the tour you have players playing well and some having poor games. Gatland chopped and changed the team a lot, making loads of changes from the first 2 tests. And what are we left with? 10 Welsh players! Form doesn't come into it for the Welsh players. Lets face it, they were always going to start.


We hear about it being a simple case of needing combinations. Well they had over a month to get everyone up to speed. Wales play a straight forward style of rugby (literally) that isn't too hard for others to understand. BOD and Tuilagi played one match together and combined well. South Africa struggled to contain BOD and Roberts on the 09 tour. The center was one area SA were really outclassed in and everyone was expected Gatland to renew the partnership but Gatland has other plans.


Gatlands cream has risen to the top because that was the plan all along. Win, lose or draw his job remains intact and he has boosted his Welsh players belief that they're the best around. What about his CV and pride I hear you say. Well if he went for the best team they could still lose and he would be in danger of losing the series after going 1 up and also in danger of upsetting his Welsh players. So he has hedged his bets and willing to sacrifice a better chance of winning to guarantee satisfaction in the valleys. Its called being pragmatic. And if people think thats a little OTT, well Quade Cooper isn't playing for Australia. Deans could play him and strengthen Australia but he is thinking long term also and Coopers negative influence ie Deans is being pragmatic. The difference here is Gatland is in charge of the Lions and should only be thinking about the Lions.


I've nothing against Welsh players BTW, its not their fault. If it was English or Irish I'd be saying the same. Gatland is the problem.
Click to expand...

Aaah... f*** it >>

goat.jpg
 
From a neutral;
The common opinion amongst me and my mates her in NZ is that Roberts is the best midfield back you have in that team, and would be up there with Smith & DeVilliers as the best in the world.

IMO (and I think i'm safe in saying, in a lot of NZers opinion) BOD has not been in top echelon of midfield backs for some time now.
The guy was invisible last week.

Can you BOD supporters put your hand on heart and say that BOD has made a visible difference to the team on this tour?
 
FlukeArtist said:
From a neutral;
The common opinion amongst me and my mates her in NZ is that Roberts is the best midfield back you have in that team, and would be up there with Smith & DeVilliers as the best in the world.

IMO (and I think i'm safe in saying, in a lot of NZers opinion) BOD has not been in top echelon of midfield backs for some time now.
The guy was invisible last week.

Can you BOD supporters put your hand on heart and say that BOD has made a visible difference to the team on this tour?
Click to expand...
Yes, certainly more than Roberts.
 

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