Third Test: Australia v British and Irish Lions (06/07/13)

[munstermuffin]

Davies is NOT a 12 ! So yes I am talking about b4 the tests ! I think Hibbard starts for his scrummaging ? And Yes I know Phillips had a stinker in the first test but do you think Youngs/Murray had a good second test ???? Phillips is the best 9 available IMO

In my opinion (maybe Munster bias) I thought Murray played very well when coming on

 

[webbyinjapan]

The most successful Home Unions team this century has the most Lions starters,,,,People do not understand that do they? Jeyzuss, I supported the Lions when Wales' only representative was Ieaun Evans!! The players chosen are the best available,,,MTFU and move on,,,

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

The most successful Home Unions team this century has the most Lions starters,,,,People do not understand that do they? Jeyzuss, I supported the Lions when Wales' only representative was Ieaun Evans!! The players chosen are the best available,,,MTFU and move on,,,

This is a really bad post. Why do people seem to think success over a period of 100 years is remotely relevant. Arguably more relevant is the fact that Wales have won only the 4th most games since the SIX nations began, behind England, Ireland, (and France)...and even this more recent stat is utterly irrelevant

 

[munstermuffin]

Just on BOD typicalif his character - Told he's dropped and not needed so off he goes and does a coaching sessio n with Noosa Dolphins.

 

[Largejanner]

This is a really bad post. Why do people seem to think success over a period of 100 years is remotely relevant. Arguably more relevant is the fact that Wales have won only the 4th most games since the SIX nations began, behind England, Ireland, (and France)...and even this more recent stat is utterly irrelevant

I think he meant THIS century, although in Wales, world cup wins don`t count.

 

[j'nuh]

Don't think I buy into this whole Gatland Welsh favoritism thing. If that was the case I think he would have picked Cuthbert over Bowe (or at least had him on the bench) and Tipuric over O'Brien.

Just to clarify, I don't think it's Welsh favouritism (I mean, Gatland isn't even Welsh, so...). I think Tipuric has been as much a "victim" of this favouritism as a lot of other players. (I did put that I don't understand why he hasn't been selected for this match.) He's been the form 7 in Europe for some time. He should have had more starts for both Wales and Lions by now, except for what I see as Gatland's favouritism for Warburton. Similar story for Ashley Beck and Wales. I don't think it's Gatland overrating the Welsh, but overrating the players that he's been close to over the years.

What I'm saying is, it's easy to pass judgement and make wild claims about "subconscious favouritism" (which I think is slightly ridiculous and makes people sound like they think they're experts in psychology), but none of us have any idea as to the true motives of this selection, how individual players have been doing in training, whether or not other coaches were involved or consulted in the selection process, or whether this selection suits a certain game plan not yet divulged that is specific to the circumstances of the weekend.

You don't have to have a degree in psychology to know that personal feelings towards someone cloud professional judgements. I described it as subconscious because I don't think he's knowingly picking the wrong players.

You just have to look at this board to see this in action. Which posters rate Cole the most highly? (Generally the English.) Healy? (Generally the Irish.) And who defended Healy's stamp in the 6N? A few Irish people. Who didn't? The rest. I may overrate Glos players. Maybe you overrate Ospreys players. In this debate, who is defending Gatland? Generally the Welsh. Who is arguing against him? The English and Irish. (Apparently there are no Scots on TRF!) Outside of rugby, look at how Liverpool fans are generally the ones to defend the actions of Suarez. I think this is all very natural.

I just don't think Gatland was detached enough for the role. Same story for Kidney, Farrell, Lancaster etc. Same story for Woodward. I'd have preferred an outsider, and this isn't even in retrospect, I said the same things at the time.

FWIW, I think there's a similar thing happening with England. I think Farrell brings a Sarries and son favouritism with him into the job.

BOD was a great player, but only good at present (nothing amazing or outstanding). Why is it that when he falls from his ridiculously high pedestal everyone treats it like a death in the family? If Halfpenny were dropped (who has been my man of the tour, incidently) for the last test I would be disappointed, but I wouldn't go on here making up crackpot conspiracies about the coaches motives, or lose faith in the Lions.

BOD is better than both players being selected. Roberts has had one or two good performances over the years, but more recently is known for being defensively sound and not a great deal more. He's essentially the Welsh Barritt. They both can have their good days and attack a bit, but both are picked for their defence at 12. As for Davies, did you see the video posted earlier in the thread? It's great the he performed well against the small teams, but he's struggled vs. Australia way more than BOD has. As shown in that vid, BOD ran a great line that Davies didn't read well at all. As I've said, BOD is also an organiser of the backline. As the best center, both by form and outside of form, as well as being an important leader, I just cannot fathom him being dropped.

Certain people need to grow up and support the Lions on saturday. Just enjoy it for a game. Cut the coaches some slack, you have no idea whatsoever what their reasons are for anything.

But you can see the results of their decisions and still disagree with them. I don't know why a Tory might cut green funding. Perhaps he feels that by not disturbing market forces with subsidies and such, the funding will come back through investments from businesses. Just because he feels that way, doesn't mean I have to agree with him...

 

[webbyinjapan]

This is a really bad post. Why do people seem to think success over a period of 100 years is remotely relevant. Arguably more relevant is the fact that Wales have won only the 4th most games since the SIX nations began, behind England, Ireland, (and France)...and even this more recent stat is utterly irrelevant

Henry, I have a similar opinion of yours,,,,I advice to to read what I wrote. I actually commented on THIS century. Henry, I have read some of the bile, irrelevance and mass hysteria that has surfaced over the last 24 hours and am amazed. It really does border on an untimely death of a people's princess,,,I fully expect HQ to be swathed in floral tributes. Do you honestly believe that the teams for the first two tests were the strongest? I am just amazed that people, who have presumably have never broken out into a sweat spout such bile, homophobia and offensive vitriol,,,,because of a World class rugby coach has chosen 20 plus players to represent his team. Dear God, personally, I would also had Ian Evans or Grey in the second row as opposed to the ruck leaning on Geography teacher....

 

[Largejanner]

......because of a World class rugby coach has chosen 20 plus players to represent his team.

By world class you mean NH class.

 

[munstermuffin]

Henry, I have a similar opinion of yours,,,,I advice to to read what I wrote. I actually commented on THIS century. Henry, I have read some of the bile, irrelevance and mass hysteria that has surfaced over the last 24 hours and am amazed. It really does border on an untimely death of a people's princess,,,I fully expect HQ to be swathed in floral tributes. Do you honestly believe that the teams for the first two tests were the strongest? I am just amazed that people, who have presumably have never broken out into a sweat spout such bile, homophobia and offensive vitriol,,,,because of a World class rugby coach has chosen 20 plus players to represent his team. Dear God, personally, I would also had Ian Evans or Grey in the second row as opposed to the ruck leaning on Geography teacher....

You do know a century is over 100 years and this century started at 2000?
In this century Wales have lost to Samoa, Fiji and Japan something Ireland or England haven't done and that is irrelevant.

 

[Swansea Osprey]

Just to clarify, I don't think it's Welsh favouritism (I mean, Gatland isn't even Welsh, so...). I think Tipuric has been as much a "victim" of this favouritism as a lot of other players. (I did put that I don't understand why he hasn't been selected for this match.) He's been the form 7 in Europe for some time. He should have had more starts for both Wales and Lions by now, except for what I see as Gatland's favouritism for Warburton. Similar story for Ashley Beck and Wales. I don't think it's Gatland overrating the Welsh, but overrating the players that he's been close to over the years.


You don't have to have a degree in psychology to know that personal feelings towards someone cloud professional judgements. I described it as subconscious because I don't think he's knowingly picking the wrong players.

You just have to look at this board to see this in action. Which posters rate Cole the most highly? (Generally the English.) Healy? (Generally the Irish.) And who defended Healy's stamp in the 6N? A few Irish people. Who didn't? The rest. I may overrate Glos players. Maybe you overrate Ospreys players. In this debate, who is defending Gatland? Generally the Welsh. Who is arguing against him? The English and Irish. (Apparently there are no Scots on TRF!) Outside of rugby, look at how Liverpool fans are generally the ones to defend the actions of Suarez. I think this is all very natural.

I just don't think Gatland was detached enough for the role. Same story for Kidney, Farrell, Lancaster etc. Same story for Woodward. I'd have preferred an outsider, and this isn't even in retrospect, I said the same things at the time.

FWIW, I think there's a similar thing happening with England. I think Farrell brings a Sarries and son favouritism with him into the job.


BOD is better than both players being selected. Roberts has had one or two good performances over the years, but more recently is known for being defensively sound and not a great deal more. He's essentially the Welsh Barritt. They both can have their good days and attack a bit, but both are picked for their defence at 12. As for Davies, did you see the video posted earlier in the thread? It's great the he performed well against the small teams, but he's struggled vs. Australia way more than BOD has. As shown in that vid, BOD ran a great line that Davies didn't read well at all. As I've said, BOD is also an organiser of the backline. As the best center, both by form and outside of form, as well as being an important leader, I just cannot fathom him being dropped.


But you can see the results of their decisions and still disagree with them. I don't know why a Tory might cut green funding. Perhaps he feels that by not disturbing market forces with subsidies and such, the funding will come back through investments from businesses. Just because he feels that way, doesn't mean I have to agree with him...

I do somewhat agree with this especially Tipuric ! Don't even get me started on Hook ( not just for the Lions he can't even get In the Welsh side )

Overall I am happy with the side apart from I would of started Tiuric ( although I do think he will be one hell of an impact player , Tuilagi the same )

And I would of had O'brien or Croft in for Lydiate !

 

[munstermuffin]

By world class you mean NH class.

Can I just add in to this and say for World Class Players they've only beaten Aus once since Warren Gatland arrived and that was due to a pen 2 mins from time add in that is 1 win out of 9 with 5 of them tests been in Cardiff

 

[Swansea Osprey]

Can I just add in to this and say for World Class Players they've only beaten Aus once since Warren Gatland arrived and that was due to a pen 2 mins from time add in that is 1 win out of 9 with 5 of them tests been in Cardiff

What would your starting XV be then mate ? Bearing in mind what uve seen out of the Lions players in two close tests ! And the Aussies have had the upper hand in the back row for both tests ( Although Welsh bias aside Warburton had a stormer last week )

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ....

What this thread has turned to. Shame on some of the older posters.

 

[Aristodemus]

Henry, I have a similar opinion of yours,,,,I advice to to read what I wrote. I actually commented on THIS century. Henry, I have read some of the bile, irrelevance and mass hysteria that has surfaced over the last 24 hours and am amazed. It really does border on an untimely death of a people's princess,,,I fully expect HQ to be swathed in floral tributes. Do you honestly believe that the teams for the first two tests were the strongest? I am just amazed that people, who have presumably have never broken out into a sweat spout such bile, homophobia and offensive vitriol,,,,because of a World class rugby coach has chosen 20 plus players to represent his team. Dear God, personally, I would also had Ian Evans or Grey in the second row as opposed to the ruck leaning on Geography teacher....

From this post you are either a troll or have no idea in rugby history.

England ranked number one in the world, one of three nations to achieve this. Won a world cup, made the final of another. Record v Aus W 9 L 8, Record v NZ W 3 L 9, Record v SA W 7 L11. Have won four 6N ***les and lie 2nd in the all time table, one point behind France. Only eight nations have ever even beat England yet as recently as a few months ago Wales ranked 10th in the world and not for the first time this century.

I realise it wasn't even worth responding to but please enlighten us how Wales have had more success.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

It's basically ... Wales vs. Rest of the World ... bloody ideal.

 

[Largejanner]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ....

What this thread has turned to. Shame on some of the older posters.

My alleged 'trolling' has become the majority view you mean?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Henry, I have a similar opinion of yours,,,,I advice to to read what I wrote. I actually commented on THIS century. Henry, I have read some of the bile, irrelevance and mass hysteria that has surfaced over the last 24 hours and am amazed. It really does border on an untimely death of a people's princess,,,I fully expect HQ to be swathed in floral tributes. Do you honestly believe that the teams for the first two tests were the strongest? I am just amazed that people, who have presumably have never broken out into a sweat spout such bile, homophobia and offensive vitriol,,,,because of a World class rugby coach has chosen 20 plus players to represent his team. Dear God, personally, I would also had Ian Evans or Grey in the second row as opposed to the ruck leaning on Geography teacher....

Inquisitive LOL?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

My alleged 'trolling' has become the majority view you mean?

No whats sad is that instead of being behind the Lions the 'Likes' of yourselves have turned this thread and the big game on Saturday into the farce.

Really some need to get a grip and get behind the 23 representing the Lions on Saturday instead of tearing the boys apart.

 

[Swansea Osprey]

From this post you are either a troll or have no idea in rugby history.

England ranked number one in the world, one of three nations to achieve this. Won a world cup, made the final of another. Record v Aus W 9 L 8, Record v NZ W 3 L 9, Record v SA W 7 L11. Have won four 6N ***les and lie 2nd in the all time table, one point behind France. Only eight nations have ever even beat England yet as recently as a few months ago Wales ranked 10th in the world and not for the first time this century.

I realise it wasn't even worth responding to but please enlighten us how Wales have had more success.

SPORT ( any sport ) is all about what have you done lately ?????? So go on at this moment and time tell me England are a better team than Wales ? And don't mention IRB rankings cause we all know the ranking system is rubbish

 

[munstermuffin]

What would your starting XV be then mate ? Bearing in mind what uve seen out of the Lions players in two close tests ! And the Aussies have had the upper hand in the back row for both tests ( Although Welsh bias aside Warburton had a stormer last week )

I'd have
Corbs
Youngs
Jones
Evans
Jones
SOB
Tipuric
Faletau
Murray
Sexton
Roberts
Bod/Tuilagi
North
Bowe
1/2penny

Hibbard
Mako
Cole
Parling
Croft
Youngs
Farrell
BOD/Tuilagi