The Ukraine War thread

[Ragey Erasmus]

Long may they stay at each others throats.

Seriously though, the Russian strongman image has been so thoroughly blown apart by this war. It's all over-reacting, incompetence and bruised egos. Even if they somehow come out on top, they are a laughing stock.

Yevgeny Prigozhin: Wagner chief blames war on defence minister

Yevgeny Prigozhin claims Vladimir Putin and the country have been deceived by Sergei Shoigu.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Gavin]

Long may they stay at each others throats.

Seriously though, the Russian strongman image has been so thoroughly blown apart by this war. It's all over-reacting, incompetence and bruised egos. Even if they somehow come out on top, they are a laughing stock.

Yevgeny Prigozhin: Wagner chief blames war on defence minister

Yevgeny Prigozhin claims Vladimir Putin and the country have been deceived by Sergei Shoigu.

www.bbc.co.uk

It'll be interesting to see how it all works out. Wagner group attacking Putin or try to remove him?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

kinda worried what Putin will do tbh

 

[Which Tyler]

To be properly honest, I don't believe a word of it.
The only I plication I'd really take seriously is that, by going public with his rants recently, Prig. may have lost his direct line to Putin

 

[McTallshort]

Well that's changed things. Whats been reported so far:

Russia activated it's Fortress plan in Moscow which is designed to stop a coup.

Wagner are in Rostov on Don and have apparently surrounded the Russian military HQ.

There have been reports of Russian forces attacking Wagner which has triggered this event. With Prigozhin having one of his usual rants online about the military lying etc etc.

Looks like a proper mess, hopefully Ukrainian forces will take advantage of the chaos and go on the offensive.

 

[Which Tyler]

To be properly honest, I don't believe a word of it.
The only I plication I'd really take seriously is that, by going public with his rants recently, Prig. may have lost his direct line to Putin

Welp, looks like I called that one badly.

Tonnes of stuff coming out overnight - I have absolutely no idea what the hell's going on - could yet be a fake, could be a full-on civil war, could be a brief coup.

Reports that Wagner are attacking Russian forces in Bakhmut. Reports that they've taken Rostov, or possibly Belgorod, or possibly both. Reports or martial law declared in Moscow. Reports of military bases in Russia randomly exploding themselves...

 

[Which Tyler]

We must have been typing at the same time.

Looks like a proper mess, hopefully Ukrainian forces will take advantage of the chaos and go on the offensive.

Do you take advantage? or do you sit back and let your enemy destroy itself without giving them an excuse to patch things up and get back to trying to kill you?

 

[McTallshort]

We must have been typing at the same time.

Do you take advantage? or do you sit back and let your enemy destroy itself without giving them an excuse to patch things up and get back to trying to kill you?

No, you go on the offensive. If this is a move to get rid of some "weaker" elements in the Russian military then waiting for the Russians to reorganize will not help. If as it appears that Wagner have pulled out the front line and the Russian southern command is effectively under house arrest then you go for it.

 

[Which Tyler]

OK, it looks like it's real, and that Wagner are fully committed to this, with no realistic way back without "taking" Moscow first - in which case, yes, absolutely Ukraine need to make hey now.

 

[Saintjay]

No, you go on the offensive. If this is a move to get rid of some "weaker" elements in the Russian military then waiting for the Russians to reorganize will not help. If as it appears that Wagner have pulled out the front line and the Russian southern command is effectively under house arrest then you go for it.

Absolutely go for the throat. Make hay while the sun shines and all that.

 

[General Melchett]

Looks like Prigozhin is attempting to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Moscow. I imagine there's no place on the front line for an old General with a dicky heart and a wooden bladder.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is this a coup or Wagner hearing the target is on his back and making a last play to remove the Russian generals and save his neck?

Ukraine could win the war now but idk I can see Putin remaining in charge in either case

 

[Reiser99]

Surely though Wagner can't win though? They were using mostly convicts out of prison and any success likely came from just throwing bodies in Bakhmut.

 

[General Melchett]

Sounds like beef between Prigozhin and the Russian Defence minister. Interesting that Prigozhin made reference to the Defence minister but not Putin who just addressed the nation on TV and didn't specifically mention Prigozhin.

If the Wagner group were attacked and lost men then Prigozhin has to be seen to be defending his group otherwise he'd lose the dressing room pretty quickly. Pretty crazy move to attack the Wagner group by the Russian Defence minister assuming it was his call.

 

[Yulia]

In Moscow everything is pretty calm right now,asked my friends and acquaintances about the situation. In Rostov... different sources saying different things.
Jesus,scared to think what if Prigozin and his "musicians" catch the power...this is not even an "oligarch mafia",these are real criminals. And to think someone like that can get an access to nuclear weapons...

Not sure about the situation,but saw in news from Rostov just recently

Upd: yes, people from Rostov confirm all that.
Apparently they are approaching Voronezh right now.

 

[BrokenWing]

At least Putin limited his state sponsored murder to Novichok eh?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Got to love how he's trying to claim he is fighting for "justice" and that he and his troops are "patriots" when he and his lot are little more than guns for hire with a sizeable chunk being serious convicts... There is little less patriotic and justice loving than a criminal gun for hire.

Ultimately this can all only be to Ukraine's benefit, especially if it is drawn out. There is no way Russia will be able to coordinate any sort of war effort if the top of their top-down command structure is incapacitated and potentially the whole government too. I imagine the soldiers on the front lines will be more concerned about a potential civil war than taking over a country they aren't wanted in anyway. There is no hiding the realities of this from the Russian people any more. Russia may be vast the majority of government and population are in the west. If he his the major western Russian cities, it's as good as a full blown civil war.

 

[Amiga500]

If Ukraine could make a breach now and force the Russians into a position they need to manoeuvre to reorganise, they could rapidly rout the lot as that reorganisation wouldn't happen and massive panic would sink in.

 

[Yulia]

This can't be for anyone's benefit. These are true criminals (majority are from prisons) headed by an absolutely inadequate person (also an ex-prisoner, who,by sources I trust, poisoned Navalny). They have nothing to lose. If they get an access to the Russian nuclear potential... it's scary and very bad for all of us.

 

[McTallshort]

This can't be for anyone's benefit. These are true criminals (majority are from prisons) headed by an absolutely inadequate person (also an ex-prisoner, who,by sources I trust, poisoned Navalny). They have nothing to lose. If they get an access to the Russian nuclear potential... it's scary and very bad for all of us.

That's a very good point and one I had missed. Who knows what he will do with nukes?