The Thin Blue Line

[Saintjay]

What happens when you spend more money reacting to crime than preventing it.

Historically the police can't measure how many crimes they prevented other than lowering crime recording. Hence why they concentrate on arrests and solved crime rates, conviction rates, responce times.

I sat on a meeting once where a senior police officer argued neighbourhood watches increased crime figures and the fear of crime. In theory you could actively reduce some crime figures by reducing neighbourhood watch. Ie if we don't know about it then it's not recorded

 

[Reiser99]

I guess its reacting but also trying to deter crime by making prison sentences longer.

Yeah but that's been proven not to work. Making sentences tougher has just put more people in prison. Instead of filling up prisons to the point that police are asked not to solve crimes, how about address the reasons people turn to crime. Young people are joining drugs gangs and at the same time the government cuts funding to youth services. These kids are more likely to end up in a gang. Poverty, education and job prospects are a huge reason, we have more people and children in poverty, education keeps getting cut and people feel they have no viable path in life.

 

[Reiser99]

Historically the police can't measure how many crimes they prevented other than lowering crime recording. Hence why they concentrate on arrests and solved crime rates, conviction rates, responce times.

I sat on a meeting once where a senior police officer argued neighbourhood watches increased crime figures and the fear of crime. In theory you could actively reduce some crime figures by reducing neighbourhood watch. Ie if we don't know about it then it's not recorded

My point was less about police actually and fixing the issues in society that cause people to commit crimes in the first place.

 

[Saintjay]

My point was less about police actually and fixing the issues in society that cause people to commit crimes in the first place.

I get you, my reply was really based on why the Police don't focus on cause. Everyone seems to just want to be tough on crime less so the causes.

 

[ncurd]

Yeah but that's been proven not to work. Making sentences tougher has just put more people in prison. Instead of filling up prisons to the point that police are asked not to solve crimes, how about address the reasons people turn to crime. Young people are joining drugs gangs and at the same time the government cuts funding to youth services. These kids are more likely to end up in a gang. Poverty, education and job prospects are a huge reason, we have more people and children in poverty, education keeps getting cut and people feel they have no viable path in life.

Yup that was my point.

 

[Reiser99]

Yup that was my point.

Sorry misread.

 

[Reiser99]

Linked to our discussion.

Target to cut court backlog cannot be met, says watchdog

The National Audit Office says delays are affecting victims and risking cases collapsing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently the task group created to solve the issue never met once in 2 years...

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Stephen Lawrence detectives will not face prosecution

A decision not to prosecute the four retired officers was upheld by the CPS after it was challenged.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sadly, just confirmation that CPS will never prosecute these senior officers for their incompetence.

 

[Reiser99]

Stephen Lawrence detectives will not face prosecution

A decision not to prosecute the four retired officers was upheld by the CPS after it was challenged.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sadly, just confirmation that CPS will never prosecute these senior officers for their incompetence.

I think the problem is proving it was intentional and not incompetence. If incompetence was a crime then most of the Tory party would be locked up.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think the problem is proving it was intentional and not incompetence. If incompetence was a crime then most of the Tory party would be locked up.

And corruption?

 

[Reiser99]

And corruption?

I'm not disagreeing. However, there is a difference between knowing it and proving it to meet a legal threshold. I don't like it and I feel they should face the consequences. However, when the judicial system is already at the point of collapse, I can understand not prosecuting a case they will most likely lose just to satisfy public opinion. That's not how justice works and it would set a dangerous precedent.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Just stinks really. They tried to prosecute Duckenfield for Hillsborough despite his lies. This just further erodes faith in the police and they can fall below the standard of a reasonable police officer, in public office. They definitely fall below that of civil liability threshold.

 

[Saintjay]

Just stinks really. They tried to prosecute Duckenfield for Hillsborough despite his lies. This just further erodes faith in the police and they can fall below the standard of a reasonable police officer, in public office. They definitely fall below that of civil liability threshold.

Didn't they prosecute Duckenfield and a jury found him not guilty of Gross negligence manslaughter. A coroner ruled there were serious failings by numerous people. These facts alone would have made it difficult for Duckenfield to be protected for the criminal offence of misconduct in a public office.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Didn't they prosecute Duckenfield and a jury found him not guilty of Gross negligence manslaughter. A coroner ruled there were serious failings by numerous people. These facts alone would have made it difficult for Duckenfield to be protected for the criminal offence of misconduct in a public office.

Hillsborough: David Duckenfield found not guilty of manslaughter

Former South Yorkshire police chief was on trial after new investigation and inquests

www.theguardian.com

They did. But it still adds to the general feeling that the establishment won't prosecute or juries find them guilty in public office. Duckenfield should never have been match commander that day - he had no experience of crowd control management at a major football match. He was out there after Brian Mole was removed due to a prank by officers from his police station on a new officer.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Racism played part in police kick incident at Manchester airport, says former senior officer

Former Met chief superintendent Dal Babu says footage of man being kicked in face by officer is ‘totally appalling’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Saintjay]

Racism played part in police kick incident at Manchester airport, says former senior officer

Former Met chief superintendent Dal Babu says footage of man being kicked in face by officer is ‘totally appalling’

www.theguardian.com

Really not sure of the racism thing. From what i can tell from reports to me it's a serious over reaction to a female colleague having her nose broken in the same incident by a group of males fighting. It doesn't justify his actions.

What the officer did is wrong and he deserves everything coming. I'm not sure you can say it was racism or not tbh. I guess the investigation might find out.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Really not sure of the racism thing. From what i can tell from reports to me it's a serious over reaction to a female colleague having her nose broken in the same incident by a group of males fighting. It doesn't justify his actions.

What the officer did is wrong and he deserves everything coming. I'm not sure you can say it was racism or not tbh. I guess the investigation might find out.

Context is important and we don't see the suspect breaking the colleague's nose in the footage. Also can't really see the ethnicity of the suspect because it's blurred and his legs. But regardless doesn't justify what he did.

As you said we'll find out more after it's been fully investigated.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Black children in England and Wales four times more likely to be strip-searched, figures show

Children’s commissioner finds wide disparity with white counterparts in year to June 2023, with 88% of searches aimed at finding drugs

www.theguardian.com

Not surprising but equally shocking stat really.

 

[ncurd]

Chris Kaba charged with nightclub shooting days before death

Judge rules details of Chris Kaba’s background can be reported after officer cleared of his murder.

www.bbc.co.uk

An interesting one this and I question the reporting restrictions and what the jury was told, ideally nobody should be shot by police but occasionally as in this case when the person is "known" to be a potential threat it may happen.

I wonder how many campaigners knew this.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Chris Kaba charged with nightclub shooting days before death

Judge rules details of Chris Kaba’s background can be reported after officer cleared of his murder.

www.bbc.co.uk

An interesting one this and I question the reporting restrictions and what the jury was told, ideally nobody should be shot by police but occasionally as in this case when the person is "known" to be a potential threat it may happen.

I wonder how many campaigners knew this.

On the one hand the police apparently didn't know who he was when they stopped him. On the other, he appears to have been a violent criminal and all round scumbag who was ok to shoot others. The way some talk, it's like he was a sweet little innocent angel.

I can understand the family are distraught but they seem to take no responsibility or care at all that their son was a repeat violent criminal who was in the process of committing a violent crime when shot.