Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[TRF_Olyy]

Lions 4th after England and Ireland for me, they'd have won more convincingly today.

Ennit,
People like to harp on about how it's all the best players from the NH while ignoring just how important training together is. This is a mish mash barbarian side brought together a few weeks before playing the best team in the world.
If coaching/time together meant nothing then the Barbarians would be a good side and not get battered by England's 4th choice a few weeks ago.

SBW will cop an automatic two week suspension as a minimum so he is out for the next week and for the Blues match against the Sunwolves

PS: Next week doesn't worry me all that much at this stage. The Red Card was the difference between the two teams... without that, I doubt the Lions would have won.

Half decent kicker and we'd have lost, 9pts left out there was it?
I'm delighted with the win but I'm not reading too much into it. Massive improvements needed for next week.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Player Ratings:
1. Vunipola - 5/10. Had a good game with some very strong carries and deft hands up until his moments of madness which have really discredited him. Also gave away a penalty in the scrum.
2. George - 7/10. What a game from George, pinpoint lineouts, strong in the scrum, set up Murray's try with an outstanding line and correct me if I'm wrong but played the full 80 minutes. Has to start for England at this point.
3. Furlong - 6/10. Went relatively unnoticed apart from a pretty monstrous first half carry. Did well in the scrum.
4. Itoje - 7/10. Pretty poor knock on in the first half but other than that a good performance. No one can pump up a team like he can, the kid is monstrous. Called the lineout well and tackled hard.
5. Alun Wyn Jones - 5/10. Was he on the pitch? His selection over Lawes, Henderson and Kruis just cannot be justified.
6. Warburton - 6/10. Pretty similar to Jones. What did he do? The All Blacks got slower ball which I'll be generous and attribute to Warbs, but I'd have thought had more to do with them losing Kaino so early.
7. O'Brien - 9/10. Wow. What a performance from this man. Easily the stand out Lions performance IMO, carried like a bull and gave away nothing in the tackle. Would have to have a very poor 3rd test not to get Man of the Tour IMO.
8. Faletau - 6/10. Took his try very well. Other than that seemed quiet but, although I haven't seen the tackle stats, I would imagine that as usual Faletau was up there. Needs to carry more though IMO.
9. Murray - 7/10. Did very well for his try and kicked well. Was lucky not to get a yellow for his high tackle but other than that a solid 80 minute shift.
10. Sexton - 7/10. Having another play maker outside him worked wonders for Sexton, he was at the heart of most things good today. Defence however still leaves quite a bit to be desired, got beasted a coupe of times.
11. Daly - 6/10. Did nothing special. He defended well and did what was asked of him in attack. TBF to him, the game plan and some of the set moves seem to be built for a big left winger (Gatland probably didn't expect to not be playing North) which meant that Daly was often having to run directly into traffic which simply isn't what he's good at. His kick was a bit of a WTF moment.
12. Farrell - 8/10. Got run over by Kaino in the first half but other than that put in a great performance. His kicking under pressure is the best in the world. The more pressure the better he kicks. Did well in attack in his usual 2nd play maker role and contained SBW and Laumape well.
13. Davies - 7/10. A solid performance, defended well and made some strong carries. His boot is undoubtedly an asset too.
14. Watson - 7/10. Made a fantastic take in the second half but other than that went unnoticed. May have been shaken after the SBW incident, may be due to a lack of space. Who knows.
15. Williams - 7/10. Solid performance. A couple of very well timed kicks and did well in attack when he was called upon. Has definitely shown his worth over Halfpenny.

16. Owens - N/A.
17. McGrath - 6/10. Went unnoticed for the most part but did fine I suppose.
18. Sinckler - 6/10. Inadvertently earned the winning pen but didn't really do much else. Carried hard as usual though.
19. Lawes - 7/10. Very strong when he came on. Carried and defended hard. Has to start next week.
20. Stander - N/A.
21. Webb - N/A.
22. Te'o - N/A.
23. Nowell - 5/10. Put in a very well placed kick but also gave away a very silly penalty. Only got about 5 minutes on the pitch.

Lions MOTM: Sonny Bill Williams

 

[bushytop]

For all the NZ posters who feel hard done by in relation to the two contentious decisions that went the Lions way (SBW red & Sinkler's jumping catch)... there are ALWAYS contentious decisions in competitive test matches that result in the losing players/fans feeling unjustly treated. When it happens to a perceived underdog, they are told to stop moaning but when they negatively effect a strong favourite (particularly a team who has lived on or over the line of the law for an eternity & got away with it) it 'becomes' a far bigger deal.

Trying to be as objective as possible, which isn't as easy as it should be; I'd say that while there are some mitigating circumstances (particularly with the Sinkler pen) the ref just about got both decisions correct. Going into the 3rd test NZ will obviously take confidence from the fact that for 55 mins the Lions struggled against only 14 men and I have to agree, NZ are probably going to be as big a favourite next week as they were today but for fans from both sides it is great that the final test is relevant.

 

[Truth]

Farrell MOTM

 

[SelimNiai]

And how do you tell the difference?

IMO, this Law is being misapplied to a situation it was never intend for.

When a ball is kicked, the players have to use judgement as to whether to jump for the ball or not, and they have several seconds to make that decision, but when a player jumps to catch a pass, the tackler has less than the best human reaction time to make a decision.

Its unjust IMO. This law need to be changed so that it only applies to players jumping for a kicked ball. Otherwise, the game will become a farce... you watch how quickly elite coaches will catch on to what Kieren Read said to the referee.

Its all down to the referee's interpretation, in his mind it was reasonable for Sinkler to leave his feet to catch the ball, as a result, once he is up he cannot be touched under the laws as they stand.

 

[smartcooky]

Half decent kicker and we'd have lost, 9pts left out there was it?
I'm delighted with the win but I'm not reading too much into it. Massive improvements needed for next week.

I don't subscribe to the opinion that missed kicks have a direct infleunce on the score (unless its conversions) because if the kick goes over, the game starts in a different place (half way restart) to where it starts after a miss (22m drop out). So, while you can argue that Barrett left 9 points out there, other scoring opportunities may not have presented themselves, and the game play would have panned out differently.

 

[smartcooky]

Its all down to the referee's interpretation, in his mind it was reasonable for Sinkler to leave his feet to catch the ball, as a result, once he is up he cannot be touched under the laws as they stand.

Correct in Law perhaps, but morally wrong. The Law should not put a player in an impossble position through no fault of his own.

 

[Scotty]

We won...fair play was gifted it by barretts boot. But why was webb teo and nowell not used, yes we won but with tired players or different outcome from kicks it cpuld have been different. Was he saving them to be fit to start next week or what?

Sexton farrell only started to work at the point of that first try in the second half ( but yes gatland said lions didnt kick enough in that first half...what the actual ****) you cant put 2 distributors then play a kicking game rather than going wide.

 

[Skylinerd1]

Player Ratings:
1. Vunipola - 5/10. Had a good game with some very strong carries and deft hands up until his moments of madness which have really discredited him. Also gave away a penalty in the scrum.
2. George - 7/10. What a game from George, pinpoint lineouts, strong in the scrum, set up Murray's try with an outstanding line and correct me if I'm wrong but played the full 80 minutes. Has to start for England at this point.
3. Furlong - 6/10. Went relatively unnoticed apart from a pretty monstrous first half carry. Did well in the scrum.
4. Itoje - 7/10. Pretty poor knock on in the first half but other than that a good performance. No one can pump up a team like he can, the kid is monstrous. Called the lineout well and tackled hard.
5. Alun Wyn Jones - 5/10. Was he on the pitch? His selection over Lawes, Henderson and Kruis just cannot be justified.
6. Warburton - 6/10. Pretty similar to Jones. What did he do? The All Blacks got slower ball which I'll be generous and attribute to Warbs, but I'd have thought had more to do with them losing Kaino so early.
7. O'Brien - 9/10. Wow. What a performance from this man. Easily the stand out Lions performance IMO, carried like a bull and gave away nothing in the tackle. Would have to have a very poor 3rd test not to get Man of the Tour IMO.
8. Faletau - 6/10. Took his try very well. Other than that seemed quiet but, although I haven't seen the tackle stats, I would imagine that as usual Faletau was up there. Needs to carry more though IMO.
9. Murray - 7/10. Did very well for his try and kicked well. Was lucky not to get a yellow for his high tackle but other than that a solid 80 minute shift.
10. Sexton - 7/10. Having another play maker outside him worked wonders for Sexton, he was at the heart of most things good today. Defence however still leaves quite a bit to be desired, got beasted a coupe of times.
11. Daly - 6/10. Did nothing special. He defended well and did what was asked of him in attack. TBF to him, the game plan and some of the set moves seem to be built for a big left winger (Gatland probably didn't expect to not be playing North) which meant that Daly was often having to run directly into traffic which simply isn't what he's good at. His kick was a bit of a WTF moment.
12. Farrell - 8/10. Got run over by Kaino in the first half but other than that put in a great performance. His kicking under pressure is the best in the world. The more pressure the better he kicks. Did well in attack in his usual 2nd play maker role and contained SBW and Laumape well.
13. Davies - 7/10. A solid performance, defended well and made some strong carries. His boot is undoubtedly an asset too.
14. Watson - 7/10. Made a fantastic take in the second half but other than that went unnoticed. May have been shaken after the SBW incident, may be due to a lack of space. Who knows.
15. Williams - 7/10. Solid performance. A couple of very well timed kicks and did well in attack when he was called upon. Has definitely shown his worth over Halfpenny.

16. Owens - N/A.
17. McGrath - 6/10. Went unnoticed for the most part but did fine I suppose.
18. Sinckler - 6/10. Inadvertently earned the winning pen but didn't really do much else. Carried hard as usual though.
19. Lawes - 7/10. Very strong when he came on. Carried and defended hard. Has to start next week.
20. Stander - N/A.
21. Webb - N/A.
22. Te'o - N/A.
23. Nowell - 5/10. Put in a very well placed kick but also gave away a very silly penalty. Only got about 5 minutes on the pitch.

Lions MOTM: Sonny Bill Williams

Jesus you scored the lions high. They werent bad at the end there but really??

And you had two MOTM Frenchie and SBW. Without one or the other the AB's would of won. You all know its true.

 

[ncurd]

you cant put 2 distributors then play a kicking game rather than going wide.

Get into the Gatland/Howley they didn't play two distributors, they played two kickers!

 

[Maverick1987]

The Crazy thing to me is take away the bullshit jumping penalty and give a penalty (and yellow) for the blatant swinging arm on Naholo and the AB's would likely of scraped through.

And before all the resident nancys get their knickers in a knot the AB's I thought did plenty enough to win this game and actually played vastly better than the lions for the majority of the match with 14 men!!!!

It does not bode well for the Lions next week as I thought even with 14 men at times we were doing it with ease.

Skylinerd is going for the most dislike on posts ever in the space of a month !

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Jesus you scored the lions high. They werent bad at the end there but really??

And you had two MOTM Frenchie and SBW. Without one or the other the AB's would of won. You all know its true.

Without talking too much about the ref, how can you argue against his decisions? A shoulder to the head his red and a tackle in the air is a penalty. You may disagree with the laws but the ref made the right decisions based on the current laws.

On not winning the match if SBW hadn't gone off, no we probably wouldn't have, but he did go off and so we won. If your player's discipline is ill enough to earn a red then that is a part of your team's performance. The Lions won and so were the better team.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We won...fair play was gifted it by barretts boot. But why was webb teo and nowell not used, yes we won but with tired players or different outcome from kicks it cpuld have been different. Was he saving them to be fit to start next week or what?

Sexton farrell only started to work at the point of that first try in the second half ( but yes gatland said lions didnt kick enough in that first half...what the actual ****) you cant put 2 distributors then play a kicking game rather than going wide.

When things got desperate and they ditched the game plan **** started to happen. Howland at its lucky, lucky best.

 

[Scotty]

Get into the Gatland/Howley they didn't play two distributors, they played two kickers!

Haha your not wrong. Wales lacked attacking flare in the 6N but yeh put howley as the lions attack coaches lol

3 kickers when you take murray as well. Great try but webb should start next week with faz and teo then bring sexton (or bigger) at 60 min to speed it up amd go wide. Or if you keep the same side then run more kick less

Could not believe gatland said we didnt kick enough in that first half...omd lol

Wanted nowell to get a shot tbh work rate player could have been what lions needed to won convincingly rather than it be gifted

 

[ncurd]

Great try but webb should start next week with faz and teo then bring sexton (or bigger) at 60 min to speed it up amd go wide. Or if you keep the same side then run more kick less

I'd keep Murray understanding between 9 and 10 is a key factor. Tactics aside the mistake today was not bringing on Te'o at 50/60 he's great against weary defences and that's when he's needed. At the start you need the two distributors to somehow unlock the defence through clever play. Of course considering it took until the second test for Gatland/Howley to realise the potential Farrell/Sexton combo I don't hold up much hope.

 

[ncurd]

Christ just read a stat an NZ player has not been sent off since 1967.....man that's not something SBW wants on his record sheet.

 

[ncurd]

Lions head coach Warren Gatland: "Even without the red card we were the better team. I

Was he watching the same game as the rest of us?

 

[Reiser99]

Can't remember when or where, but I once heard someone talk about not giving the ref the opportunity to send you off. Now some people may disagree with it, but if you tackle recklessly with no arms and a shoulder to the head, then the ref can interpret that as a red card offence. Some may have gone yellow, others would have gone red as well. However the blame lies solely with SBW for tackling like that in the first place. It's the risk he took, not making a legal tackle.

 

[Ground We Won]

Ok, so with Hansen's gamble selections we now have ALB, Laumape and Goodhue left as centres going into the final test of the series at 1-1

ALB has just 11 caps and Laumape with the 1 and Goodhue is 21 and uncapped.

We have Fekitoa a 20+ cap world cup winner who puts his body on the line and has a huge amount of experience with playing with our backs to the wall, sitting at home watching the games on TV. Ok he's not the best centre in the world but, he's really experienced and doesn't let you down in a tight spot.

This is an irresponsible selection in my opinion. These kids are good players but, throwing them into this situation for their debut is unfair. 2 players untested at test match level against the '2nd' best team in the world in a deciding fixture..

Hansen might learn a lesson next weekend, I think he's already learning it now.

 

[Skylinerd1]

I dont like SBW but I actually have another point of view on this whole thing. Yeah whatever it was a red card. BUT Teo got off with his tip tackle last week..... Now whats SBW meant to think about that? I actually think he might of thought he'd get away with this one but it just looked to bad in the replays once the refs attention was drawn to it and thems are the breaks.

I still think in a series like this (almost state of origin like) that type of tackle should be ignored for the good of the series.... Or in this case jumped on to keep the lions in the game (as they are clearly out of their depth) and the series interesting....

Something to think about.