Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[valley commando]

Yeah your talking ********

Really I dont think so

 

[Every Time Ref]

Do you think Warren has stuck to warrenball? If anything I think the approach hasn't been what I was expecting it to be at times. The selection of the wings and fullback have been surprising. As was brining in POM in the first place. If he was really Wales centric Warbs would have started that first test I think. Regardless of that even, you'd have to say the style wasn't exactly what we expected so far.

I think Warren is getting a lot of flak because of the the players he's called up as cover. A crazy move and he's rightly getting some heat for it. But there's some things he's tried to do differently, albeit against the best team in the world. I'm not a fan of Warren just to add, particularly for Wales. And I don't agree with some of his tactical decisions across the team.

Sorry it's taken me all day to reply!

It looks a lot like Warrenball to me, as far as I can see the attacking structures are identical. One out bosh, one out bosh, two centres who run straight and don't/can't pass. Hardly a dummy runner to be seen, no passing behind a runner to the second line of attack. There's been more excitement from the back 3 than you see for Wales, but it's from counter attacking, not because the midfield attack is getting them the ball in space.

I've got to give him dues for the selection in some ways, like you say the back 3, dropping 1/2p and POM all good, non-Welsh ideas. But for me the fundamental approach is indistinguishable from Warrenball.

 

[TopTen2003]

The one way for the Lions to make this suddenly mean a lot more to NZ fans is to put one over them.

Trust me, South Africa waited 12 years to revenge 1997 and Australia 2025 will be a big deal.

Right now, NZ are spanning everyone but lose to the Lions and they'll suddenly understand.

Lions fans make it a special atmosphere IMO. Also, I don't know if you guys in the Southern Hemisphere realise it, but the challenge of beating you guys with a team that has to mound together in 6 weeks is THE greatest challenge we can have set. Beating NZ in a series away from home is unheard of and the special thing about the Lions is the impossible dreaming of seeing if you can beat the best in the world with the best of Britain and Ireland.

Don't take away the magic of it please guys- it's such a special tour for us and you only have us every 12 years in your country so surely you can't be sick of us.

Watch the 2009 2nd test against the Boks and tell me it's not an incredible spectacle or that it doesn't mean something. Last week was amazing for 45 or so minutes also, let's not forget!

 

[TopTen2003]

The one way for the Lions to make this suddenly mean a lot more to NZ fans is to put one over them.

Trust me, South Africa waited 12 years to revenge 1997 and Australia 2025 will be a big deal.

Right now, NZ are spanning everyone but lose to the Lions and they'll suddenly understand.

Lions fans make it a special atmosphere IMO. Also, I don't know if you guys in the Southern Hemisphere realise it, but the challenge of beating you guys with a team that has to mound together in 6 weeks is THE greatest challenge we can have set. Beating NZ in a series away from home is unheard of and the special thing about the Lions is the impossible dreaming of seeing if you can beat the best in the world with the best of Britain and Ireland.

Don't take away the magic of it please guys- it's such a special tour for us and you only have us every 12 years in your country so surely you can't be sick of us.

Watch the 2009 2nd test against the Boks and tell me it's not an incredible spectacle or that it doesn't mean something. Last week was amazing for 45 or so minutes also, let's not forget!

 

[valley commando]

Sorry it's taken me all day to reply!

It looks a lot like Warrenball to me, as far as I can see the attacking structures are identical. One out bosh, one out bosh, two centres who run straight and don't/can't pass. Hardly a dummy runner to be seen, no passing behind a runner to the second line of attack. There's been more excitement from the back 3 than you see for Wales, but it's from counter attacking, not because the midfield attack is getting them the ball in space.

I've got to give him dues for the selection in some ways, like you say the back 3, dropping 1/2p and POM all good, non-Welsh ideas. But for me the fundamental approach is indistinguishable from Warrenball.

There is no such thing as Warrenball a term made up by and referred to by idiots

 

[valley commando]

The one way for the Lions to make this suddenly mean a lot more to NZ fans is to put one over them.

Trust me, South Africa waited 12 years to revenge 1997 and Australia 2025 will be a big deal.

Right now, NZ are spanning everyone but lose to the Lions and they'll suddenly understand.

Lions fans make it a special atmosphere IMO. Also, I don't know if you guys in the Southern Hemisphere realise it, but the challenge of beating you guys with a team that has to mound together in 6 weeks is THE greatest challenge we can have set. Beating NZ in a series away from home is unheard of and the special thing about the Lions is the impossible dreaming of seeing if you can beat the best in the world with the best of Britain and Ireland.

Don't take away the magic of it please guys- it's such a special tour for us and you only have us every 12 years in your country so surely you can't be sick of us.

Watch the 2009 2nd test against the Boks and tell me it's not an incredible spectacle or that it doesn't mean something. Last week was amazing for 45 or so minutes also, let's not forget!

Congratulations, fantastic post

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I beg to differ and very much doubt your fanciful thought that any Sarries or Irish player currently on this or any other Lions tour who would rather the Euro win or Irish victory over NZ than be part of a Lions winning series. What may be true is that younger fans of Ireland or Sarries may have those thoughts, but they are young a know little of life, they will learn as they grow older.
Warbs very words in the press today were that the Lions is the pinnacle and means that much to players that in his case the only jersey on the wall in his living room is one of his Lions jerseys. Can you find me a capped Lion that would agree with your sentiments ? I doubt it.

Hmmm... I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Irish player or fan choose a series win over Chicago. BOD said back in 02 after beating then world champions Australia that although he'd beaten them with the Lions it was more special to beat them with his country on the "Greatest wins in Irish rugby history" DVD. I do think the Lions means less to Irish people than the other three countries though, we'd definitely rather see Ireland do well than the Lions.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hmmm... I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Irish player or fan choose a series win over Chicago. BOD said back in 02 after beating then world champions Australia that although he'd beaten them with the Lions it was more special to beat them with his country on the "Greatest wins in Irish rugby history" DVD. I do think the Lions means less to Irish people than the other three countries though, we'd definitely rather see Ireland do well than the Lions.

Of course he would say that on an Irish rugby DVD FFS

 

[Groundhog]

Chicago win>>>>>>> any Lions achievement for an Irish person. Making history for your country will of course come above this, even if we do win. It was the result of many years of slow professionalism and growth of the game in the country, which I think older fans who know how bad we used to be would appreciate more than anyone. I like the Lions, and always will, but c'mon.
Similarly a Lions loss will never hurt as much as some of our most disappointing losses. The Lions is a sideshow to our growth and achievements as a rugby nature. Nice distraction, but not a blip on what I hope we achieve.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Of course he would say that on an Irish rugby DVD FFS

He didn't have to mention the Lions though.

 

[McTallshort]

Really I dont think so

Well let's discuss this then...

SCW was lucky and the only reason the side he coached won the WC was because of the players and he had nothing to do with it? So every player in that winning team has said what a fantastic contribution he made but you know better? And you are a pleasant if somewhat one eyed welshmen who said Gatland was the only choice for the Lions coach because how fantastic he was.

Here is a theory: Gatland only won at Wasps because he was backed by a big money squad and the only reason he won those grand slams with wales was because everyone else was crap and once they worked out his one dimensional style the Welsh started getting hammered again. Yes I know it sounds daft, which is exactly how you sound I'm afraid.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

https://rugbymarvel.wordpress.com/2017/06/30/head-to-heads-2nd-test/

My three most important head to heads for tomorrow. Enjoy and comment, whether you agree or disagree!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

He didn't have to mention the Lions though.

I know what you mean.

TBH i have heard a few England players who played for the Lions say that playing for England would always trump playing for the Lions.


I think the majority of English fans wouldn't trade the 2012 Twickenham Win v the AB's for a lions test win or the 2003 Australasia tour series win over a lions series win. (The welsh fans don't know how it feels to beat them so wouldn't understand it)

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'm another who thinks the lions means a lot more than people are saying.

Where I think the problem is is aligning a tour where there is going to be a good competition. 2009 in my opinion was perfect. South Africa were the world champions but not unbeatable by any means and there was a good deal of healthy "hostility" going round about that tour - by which I mean the South Africans wanted to smash us and as someone else pointed out avenge the 1997 tour defeat. Losing that second test was one of the most painful defeats Ive had as a fan. The 2013 tour lined up ok though I think the lions made hard work of it and easily could have lost the first test also. But New Zealand 2017 has just felt like a longshot and I expect it will always be so in subsequent tours. Then consider a lions tour to south Africa in the state they were last year or the state Australia seem to be in right now. It's hard to get a balanced test series.

And no, there is very little that could happen from hereon in to vindicate the decisions which have been made. With Warburton, the only thing would be if he changes the balance of the backrow significantly. I say that because the first test partnership looked to be well balanced for several games and Gatland has a track record of sticking with a losing lineup - the backrow of the first test certainly doesn't deserve to be changed on the evidence of the first test alone bearing in mind good prior form.

One thing that could be a recipe for vindication is if these players are being picked to execute a very different gameplan. The first test loss was after all not the fault of individuals. Tactically we were out-thought completely, we never looked like stopping the all blacks' simple tactic of making yards through the middle, and the kick and pressure plan was shown to be extremely limited when the opposition can actually catch the ball. Unless we are just planning to execute a very different gameplan and it's shown that certain players are essential to it AND we do significantly better than last week, it won't be justified.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Better than supporting the cultural appropriation of the native Americans.

Gif here of a Exeter supporter dress as a Native american chief celebrating Chiefs recent prem win:

Woah... they are appropriating our appropriation of Native American culture

Give credit where credit is due

 

[Ground We Won]

@Liam Mellor.

I'm a big Lions fan and always want them to do well. The concept is great and the '71 test series is legendary.

The challenge is great for us too. It's an organization with more raw resources and depth than anyone. It's just a bugger they often botch it with wrong issues that keep it fron reaching its potential.

 

[Bluemoon]

Sorry it's taken me all day to reply!

It looks a lot like Warrenball to me, as far as I can see the attacking structures are identical. One out bosh, one out bosh, two centres who run straight and don't/can't pass. Hardly a dummy runner to be seen, no passing behind a runner to the second line of attack. There's been more excitement from the back 3 than you see for Wales, but it's from counter attacking, not because the midfield attack is getting them the ball in space.

I've got to give him dues for the selection in some ways, like you say the back 3, dropping 1/2p and POM all good, non-Welsh ideas. But for me the fundamental approach is indistinguishable from Warrenball.

Agree with the way the centres have approached the game so far in the 'big' games but they have tried to go wider in some of the midweek games. This weeks centre partnership or 10/12/13 axis is certainly not leaning to Warrenball. The big question is whether this is all about managing the conditions or whether it's an attempt to go wider, sooner, with a pivot or dummy option also available.

Either way I think Gats and Howler haven't been completey as I was expecting them to be. We'll see if they can move their style beyond warrenball tomorrow. I hope for everyone's sake we are all wrong!

 

[anderton46]

Of course he would say that on an Irish rugby DVD FFS

After getting dropped for the one test where the Lions were class...

 

[Ground We Won]

That Chicago win was a relatively poor AB team that wasn't focused.

Besting a close to full strength AB tesm in NZ is a far bigger achievement.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Agree with the way the centres have approached the game so far in the 'big' games but they have tried to go wider in some of the midweek games. This weeks centre partnership or 10/12/13 axis is certainly not leaning to Warrenball. The big question is whether this is all about managing the conditions or whether it's an attempt to go wider, sooner, with a pivot or dummy option also available.

Either way I think Gats and Howler haven't been completey as I was expecting them to be. We'll see if they can move their style beyond warrenball tomorrow. I hope for everyone's sake we are all wrong!

Yeah to be fair I was only thinking of the first XV and only up to this point, a little reductive.

Remains to be seen what tomorrow brings, but it doesn't look like a warren all TBF