Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[Nubiwan]

Lions 2nd Test Team:
1. Vunipola
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones
6. Warburton (c)
7. O'Brien
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Williams

16. Owens
17. McGrath
18. Sinckler
19. Lawes
20. Stander
21. Webb
22. Te'o
23. Nowell

Pleasantly shocked by Faz at 12. In that regard Garland seems to be seeing the light.

That's where my praise ends. The inclusion of Jones over literally any other lock and Warburton over POM or Tipuric is frankly disgraceful, Gatland's Welsh bias and his bias in particular to his captains (Warbs and Jones) is infuriating. I hope the Lions win but I'll be almost bitterly pleased when we don't as it will truly put the final nail in Gatland's coffin as a respected coach. He has single handedly turned this tour into a mockery. When no one is truly supporting the Lions with their hearts it will be because of him causing us to lose any faith in our team.

I'm sorry for the rant, I usually try to contain strong opinions on matter like this but it's truly upsetting to see possibly the greatest tradition in our sport ruined by one man. I feel truly sorry for the Welsh who have been stuck with him for years and will continue to be stuck with him until 2019. I think that now I have experienced a sample of your frustration.

Don't get it at all with AWJ and Warburton in the pack. There is simply no justification. I wouldn't have them in the 23. It's sickening and nowt short of a bloody decent showing satdee is going to change my opinion. Kruis didn't have a great test, but his form has been great. Itoje, Lawes and Henderson have all shown better than AWJ. Lets not bring up Joe friggin Launchbury. Holy crap! It's frankly embarassing AWJ in the starting XV. Don't get me started on Warburton. Simply no justification - at all.

I'm English. I still don't like Farrell at 12 either. Thought Te'o did what was asked of him in test 1, and he kept SBW quiet. Te'o has had a good tour and sacrificed - based on what?

Must have took every ounce of Gatlands spunk to drop 1/2 penny. Waste of a spot in the opener.

Just do not fancy our chances any more than I might have with this Gatland XV. Had a little glimmer of hope after last weekend, but this side has upset my optimism. Good players on tour being forsaken for Gatlands mates.

 

[munstermuffin]

Thing that kind of ****** me off is Gatland will almost have destroyed the Lions novelty completely with how he has done the last 2 tours. He's operated with the benefits to Wales on his mind. Be it the call ups this tour, the tight selections for squad and captaincy choice. Also how he has picked his team with a mind of not upsetting his key Welsh players.
And for all the greatness of the last tour the facts are -
1. We beat the worst Aus team of the past 30 years that the individual nation would've won
2. He only managed it due to Kurtley Beale (who wasn't in a good place) slipping just before his kick in test 1.

 

[The Jones Boy]

It's crazy every nation seems to rate him as a top 7 except Gatland

Fixed that for you

 

[Nubiwan]

Thing that kind of ****** me off is Gatland will almost have destroyed the Lions novelty completely with how he has done the last 2 tours. He's operated with the benefits to Wales on his mind. Be it the call ups this tour, the tight selections for squad and captaincy choice. Also how he has picked his team with a mind of not upsetting his key Welsh players.
And for all the greatness of the last tour the facts are -
1. We beat the worst Aus team of the past 30 years that the individual nation would've won
2. He only managed it due to Kurtley Beale (who wasn't in a good place) slipping just before his kick in test 1.

I have severe worries that Union will even be a going concern in Australia in 5 years time.

 

[valley commando]

Don't get it at all with AWJ and Warburton in the pack. There is simply no justification. I wouldn't have them in the 23. It's sickening and nowt short of a bloody decent showing satdee is going to change my opinion. Kruis didn't have a great test, but his form has been great. Itoje, Lawes and Henderson have all shown better than AWJ. Lets not bring up Joe friggin Launchbury. Holy crap! It's frankly embarassing AWJ in the starting XV. Don't get me started on Warburton. Simply no justification - at all.

I'm English. I still don't like Farrell at 12 either. Thought Te'o did what was asked of him in test 1, and he kept SBW quiet. Te'o has had a good tour and sacrificed - based on what?

Must have took every ounce of Gatlands spunk to drop 1/2 penny. Waste of a spot in the opener.

Just do not fancy our chances any more than I might have with this Gatland XV. Had a little glimmer of hope after last weekend, but this side has upset my optimism. Good players on tour being forsaken for Gatlands mates.

I agree with you on AWJ and on Farrell, but disagree with you on Warburton who should be playing 6 in an all Wales back row with the incredibly unlucky Tipuric. For me Farrell doesn't merit a place in the 23, Biggar deserves a spot as the form 10 on tour and is also unlucky.
I also disagree with you on 1/2p, not missed a kick all tour and should have started on the wing, Teo is unlucky but will have impact off the bench (although the game will be lost by the time he enters the fray)

 

[anderton46]

I agree with you on AWJ and on Farrell, but disagree with you on Warburton who should be playing 6 in an all Wales back row with the incredibly unlucky Tipuric. For me Farrell doesn't merit a place in the 23, Biggar deserves a spot as the form 10 on tour and is also unlucky.
I also disagree with you on 1/2p, not missed a kick all tour and should have started on the wing, Teo is unlucky but will have impact off the bench (although the game will be lost by the time he enters the fray)

The problem with Biggar is that he's only useful off the bench if the Lions are ahead. He'll do a good job being steady and managing the game. However if we are behind, which is likely, then we'd really want someone with a bit of x factor to open up a team.

 

[Groundhog]

I agree with you on AWJ and on Farrell, but disagree with you on Warburton who should be playing 6 in an all Wales back row with the incredibly unlucky Tipuric. For me Farrell doesn't merit a place in the 23, Biggar deserves a spot as the form 10 on tour and is also unlucky.
I also disagree with you on 1/2p, not missed a kick all tour and should have started on the wing, Teo is unlucky but will have impact off the bench (although the game will be lost by the time he enters the fray)

How can you call for Biggar to be included on form (which I don't think he particularly has to be honest, kicked some howlers v Canes) and then say Warburton should still be included. He's neither in good form or fitness. Halfpenny really doesn't offer as much outside of kicking as he used to. It's like someone coached his counterattacking out of him. Shouldn't start. Tipuric I'll agree is class. Seriously undervalued.

 

[Nubiwan]

I agree with you on AWJ and on Farrell, but disagree with you on Warburton who should be playing 6 in an all Wales back row with the incredibly unlucky Tipuric. For me Farrell doesn't merit a place in the 23, Biggar deserves a spot as the form 10 on tour and is also unlucky.
I also disagree with you on 1/2p, not missed a kick all tour and should have started on the wing, Teo is unlucky but will have impact off the bench (although the game will be lost by the time he enters the fray)

I will disagree with all that bar Tipuric and the bits you agree with me on. You could be right on Biggar, who has improved, but was never going to start ahead of Farrell or Sexton at 10. just my opinion. 1/2 penny and Warburton have shown me nothing, sorry.

 

[MarkyH]

The problem with Biggar is that he's only useful off the bench if the Lions are ahead. He'll do a good job being steady and managing the game. However if we are behind, which is likely, then we'd really want someone with a bit of x factor to open up a team.

This is a point that's been repeated on here a lot. We don't have a game changer that can win (or even lose) us a game who plays 10. Sexton and Farrell have been bang average and Biggar has done well but despite Biggar being the best of an average bunch on tour I wouldn't have in in the 23 as he's just no where near as good as Sexton and Farrell. We'd be better off with a Ford or Russell. Maybe we could've took 4 FHs if we had intention of starting 2 of them...

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I also disagree with you on 1/2p, not missed a kick all tour and should have started on the wing

Why would you start Halfpenny? Already a good kicker at 10 and surely HP doesn't offer as much on attack as the preferred wingers...

 

[valley commando]

This is a point that's been repeated on here a lot. We don't have a game changer that can win (or even lose) us a game who plays 10. Sexton and Farrell have been bang average and Biggar has done well but despite Biggar being the best of an average bunch on tour I wouldn't have in in the 23 as he's just no where near as good as Sexton and Farrell. We'd be better off with a Ford or Russell. Maybe we could've took 4 FHs if we had intention of starting 2 of them...

He is better slightly than Sexton on this tour and streets ahead of Farrell

 

[valley commando]

Why would you start Halfpenny? Already a good kicker at 10 and surely HP doesn't offer as much on attack as the preferred wingers...

I'd like to win this test so the best kicker on at the start to apply pressure and keep the score ticking over.
Sexton and Farrell are average kickers 1/2p is the best in the world at the moment

 

[Nubiwan]

Why would you start Halfpenny? Already a good kicker at 10 and surely HP doesn't offer as much on attack as the preferred wingers...

Yeah, like Watson, Daly, Nowell and Williams have shown vastly better on tour.

 

[Groundhog]

Farrell is so far from an average kicker...... Sexton's stats are also excellent. If you're planning on trying to kick the All Blacks to submission at the expense of an attacking player, we're showing the All Blacks our backs.

 

[Nubiwan]

I'd like to win this test so the best kicker on at the start to apply pressure and keep the score ticking over.
Sexton and Farrell are average kickers 1/2p is the best in the world at the moment

Having the best kicker in the world on the paddock against the All Blacks will mean dick all if you can't score. We rather need a few better rugby players than 1/2 Penny's form has shown of late. Think Sexton and Farrell are adequate kickers. No need to weaken the side for a 100% goal kicker.

 

[Jakedood]

I'd like to win this test so the best kicker on at the start to apply pressure and keep the score ticking over.
Sexton and Farrell are average kickers 1/2p is the best in the world at the moment

Unfortunately Valley, a slot on the Wing a tthis level, has to be for something other than "he can kick well" and while that might be a valid argument if he was an out half, with either sexton or Farrell playing we are reliable enough there that we dont need an extra option with the boot, and Halfpenny hasnt been effective enough in open play to warrant a start. Whereas you saw Anthony Watson last week in full flow, cutting through the opposition beautifully, I think someone he beat 3 or 4 defenders in one run. Daly has lightning gas, and great distribution as you'd have seen in the Chiefs game, and Halfpenny just hasnt brought any of that to the tour. I know some people say he used to do this and that when on the wing, but if he hasnt shown it this tour he shouldnt be picked

 

[valley commando]

Unfortunately Valley, a slot on the Wing a tthis level, has to be for something other than "he can kick well" and while that might be a valid argument if he was an out half, with either sexton or Farrell playing we are reliable enough there that we dont need an extra option with the boot, and Halfpenny hasnt been effective enough in open play to warrant a start. Whereas you saw Anthony Watson last week in full flow, cutting through the opposition beautifully, I think someone he beat 3 or 4 defenders in one run. Daly has lightning gas, and great distribution as you'd have seen in the Chiefs game, and Halfpenny just hasnt brought any of that to the tour. I know some people say he used to do this and that when on the wing, but if he hasnt shown it this tour he shouldnt be picked

I think you'd see a different 1/2p if he was on the wing, it almost seems that his concentration at fullback removes the instinct which he has shown when on the wing.

 

[anderton46]

I think you'd see a different 1/2p if he was on the wing, it almost seems that his concentration at fullback removes the instinct which he has shown when on the wing.

Pretty sure he has played on the wing a few times in the past year. Still just doesn't do enough to justify dropping Watson or Daly.

 

[valley commando]

On front row. Agreed on 3 starters but maybe McGrath for Mako as Mako offers amazing impact from bench.
2nd row. Lawes deserves a start. AWJ doesn't deserve to be in the 23. Itoje deserves to be there.
Backrow. Seanie deserves to stay. Warburton doesn't deserve to be in 23 and I'd argue should feel a bit iffy as he got selected through brown nosing Gatland. He has no form or fitness and hasn't earned it. Faletau is there as there is no real alternative.
9. Murray deserves to be in again.
10/12. I use these 2 as a unit because I think Te'o is very unlucky. But accept Alpha point earlier you get more out of a Sexton/Farrell unit. My issue is out of the 3 though Te'o has had a great tour while Sexton and Farrell have had mixed tours at best. Also again I've no issues with the 2 lads but apart from it being forced why wasn't this combo tried more during the tour?
13. Davies deserves his spot.
11/14/15. Again the lads deserve another go.

16. I think Best is unlucky but was flogged and made play 80mins despite not being built to play 80 anymore and welfare put at risk by Gatland stupidity so had to be Owens.
17. No issues
18. No Issues
19. Lawes should be starting and Henderson here but again Gatland arrogance and stupidity causes this.
20. Many here know I'm the biggest fan of CJ here for years and work closely with him at Munster. But few issues. He probably deserves 20 jersey but not to be ahead of POM or Tips on form. And he isn't 100% which is clear and if CJ isn't 100% pain free it's hard to do well in these games because of his style. Tips had superb game Tuesday and POM has done nothing to merit being dropped.
21/22/23 - Easy to pick as North and Henshaw ruled out. Halfpenny was carrying knock too it's being said.

The issue is though Gatland has picked with bias and thoughts on Wales post-tour and it's actually hampered the Lions chances, the reputaion and pride of the tour and morale within the squad

Agreed Lawes and Itojoe should be starting with Henderson on the bench. Am hopeful that Warbs is fully fit and firing on Sat, but would prefer him at 6 with Tips at 7.
Tips is the unluckiest player on the planet where as AWJ must be the luckiest, I also see Farrell as extremely lucky to be in the 23 but hey ho Daddys a coach.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I'd like to win this test so the best kicker on at the start to apply pressure and keep the score ticking over.
Sexton and Farrell are average kickers 1/2p is the best in the world at the moment

So you're picking a winger on the basis that he's a good goal-kicker... LOL! That's dumb, even for you. Sexton and Farrell are far from average goal-kickers... they're actually very good. Certainly better than the ABs goal-kicker, who is possibly the worst of all tier 1 international teams. And yet, the ABs are the best team in the world... why is that? Because they can score tries.
You need your wingers to be guys who can finish, or at least make meters and beat a man. That's what they're there for, and that's what would give you the best chance at challenging the ABs. Sacrificing that for a dull winger who might get the odd extra shot at goal is just dumb. Not worth it. You lose so much more than you gain.

*waits for the customary triggered VC dislike*