Summer tours - England

[RedruthRFC]

Unfortunately this argument always falls down.

Just because something worked, it doesn't make it the most effective things.

You can walk from London to Manchester, you can drive from London to Manchester, get the train or fly.

They all get there but just because you walk it doesn't make it the most efficient.

We have the most players, the best club game. We should be always up there in the top 1-2 in the world. Just because Lancaster and Johnson were poor coaches it doesn't make Jones' approach correct.

Or in the world of rugby, you can coach England to the 2003 RWC, but it doesn't mean that they won because of you rather than in spite of you.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Or in the world of rugby, you can coach England to the 2003 RWC, but it doesn't mean that they won because of you rather than in spite of you.

By you do you mean me?

Because 100% they only won the WC because of me.....

 

[RedruthRFC]

By you do you mean me?

Because 100% they only won the WC because of me.....

Occam's razor applies here. See if you can think of the person who coached England at the 2003 RWC.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Occam's razor applies here. See if you can think of the person who coached England at the 2003 RWC.

I studied Occam's razor a long long time ago. I see what you mean now though.

But my point still stands, just because Eddie does it, it doesn't make it right.

Maybe if he spent a little more time watching Exeter rather than thinking about foreign leagues and players we'd have made 3rd in this 6 nations.
Who knows.

 

[RedruthRFC]

But my point still stands, just because Eddie does it, it doesn't make it right.

Maybe if he spent a little more time watching Exeter rather than thinking about foreign leagues and players we'd have made 3rd in this 6 nations.
Who knows.

Indeed, I was agreeing with it. I thought my example was pretty apt given that most people with more than a passing interest in the game seem to agree that SCW is stealing a living talking about rugby,

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Indeed, I was agreeing with it. I thought my example was pretty apt given that most people with more than a passing interest in the game seem to agree that SCW is stealing a living talking about rugby,

I think he says stuff no days just to be controversial as I bet if he was I charge then he wouldn't have done all silly calls he talks about in the press.

 

[Jakedood]

I think one thing i remembered standing out is during 6N years said his team v wales or ireland would comprise of a bunch of guys of which 10 had never played international rugby
Now I'm not saying they weren't in form or the right people, but every coach worth his salt knows you can't change that many moving parts at once. Football it happens between comps and you can see huge differences, and actually it only takes 2/3 changes to pick up everyone else's game
That's what stood out most as a coach who had no clue. Better to take him as a pure pundit, thank someone who's ever succeeded in the game

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Or in the world of rugby, you can coach England to the 2003 RWC, but it doesn't mean that they won because of you rather than in spite of you.

SCW was an ideas man. So's Jones. Like most creative people there's a fine line between genius and insanity.

The big difference to us outsiders is that SCW listened to the players whereas Jones seems more of an instructing control freak. SCW's squad seemed to have many more leaders and big characters.....is that a reflection of the system e.g players who knew the real world outside academies or the culture SCW fostered? Probably a bit of both.

 

[RedruthRFC]

SCW was an ideas man. So's Jones. Like most creative people there's a fine line between genius and insanity.

The big difference to us outsiders is that SCW listened to the players whereas Jones seems more of an instructing control freak. SCW's squad seemed to have many more leaders and big characters.....is that a reflection of the system e.g players who knew the real world outside academies or the culture SCW fostered? Probably a bit of both.

My take on it is that SCW was in the right place at the right time - he brought professionalism to a game that (in England at least) was professional in name only at the time. Jones certainly seems dictatorial in his approach, I don't remember (if I ever knew) what SCW's style was like. You're certainly right that he had plenty of natural leaders within his 2003 side. The leadership in that 2003 side is something I think about quite often. Johnson, Leonard and Dayglow's abilities were clear in the pre-Woodward Living With The Lions, but you could imagine most of the XXII giving a decent team talk if called upon. It would be interesting to have the insight to compare the leadership / characters in this side with the French / Aussie / Kiwi sides at the tournament, if all of them are heavier on leaders, it would lend more credence to the theory that a life outside rugby helps in this regard.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Whether Jones is rubbish, control, freak or genius, our team definitely lacks leaders and maybe that's why Ewls has been in but we can't rely on toddler Farrell.

 

[Geordie]

Is Ewells ever going to be a starting lock though? And will he even be in the squad once some of the youngsters come through...the likes of George Martin will over take Ewells quite quickly i would imagine.

Im not a Farrell fan. i just dont see what he brings to the side, either in Leadership or in ability on the pitch.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is Ewells ever going to be a starting lock though? And will he even be in the squad once some of the youngsters come through...the likes of George Martin will over take Ewells quite quickly i would imagine.

I think he will this summer,

Itoje will (almost definitely) be on Lions, Launchbury is out, Martin is playing exclusively at 6 for his club (as is Isiekwe)
I think it'll be two of Ewels/Lawes/Hill, with either the odd one out (or a nipper) on the bench

To be fair to Ewels he had a solid 6N - I'm not particularly a big fan of his (looks like a good prem-standard lock, really) but he's earned it if he starts again

 

[BPM]

I'm expecting Ribbans to be involved. Possibly even as a starter.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm expecting Ribbans to be involved. Possibly even as a starter.

Yeah, that's a good shout

Though I must admit I'm not the hype train as much as most seem to be - very good player, don't get me wrong, but the commentary and fans speak as his he's some world beater and I'm always having to double check the teamsheet to make sure I'm looking at the right guy

 

[Geordie]

I fully expect Ribbands to be in the summer squad for England. Hes a big unit and consistently dominating his opponents. Very good player.

I do think Ewells is a good prem player, and as you say was solid in the 6n...but not outstanding. I prefer Johnny Hill, but im not sure he will be a starting lock either. Another very good prem player...

George Martin is following the route of Launchbury and Kruis in settling in to the prem at 6 and i have no doubt he will move to lock sooner rather than later. He's 6'6 and 18.5 stone already at 19 year old. He could well hit 20 stone if he develops correctly. Thats a big aggressive young lock with a crazy work rate.

I still want to see Isiekwe move back to lock and really fulfil his potential. Theres a few other young guns coming through aswell to watch...

Add in Ted hill at 6 and you have the start of a large physical mobile pack.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Alex Moon is probably in the mix as well - trained with England over the Six Nations
He might be who I'm getting Ribbans mixed up with tbf (though I'm not sure how, with those long flowing locks )


I'm surprised Martin is that heavy - don't think he looks particularly big (for a lock/backrower)
Full stone heavier than Jasper Wiese (though 3inches taller)

 

[Geordie]

Yeah hes actually quite lean but hes a real heavy duty unit (Martin) and will definitely put on more muscle.
He was a huge carrier in the age group sides but apparently he is personally not happy with his carrying at this level and is working on that aspect aswell.

You can probably tell he's one player i have huge hope for in an England perspective.

 

[Jakedood]

Alex Moon is probably in the mix as well - trained with England over the Six Nations
He might be who I'm getting Ribbans mixed up with tbf (though I'm not sure how, with those long flowing locks )


I'm surprised Martin is that heavy - don't think he looks particularly big (for a lock/backrower)
Full stone heavier than Jasper Wiese (though 3inches taller)

Look at Iain Henderson, man doesnt look absolutely massive, but he's an ox and heavy to boot. Some people just seem to have it, maybe mostly in the leg drive

 

[Geordie]

i see its announced...

USA will travel to Dublin to play Ireland and London to play England in the summer.

3rd July USA v England
10th July USA v Ireland

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

A team of v USA + Canada
1. Genge
2. Dunn
3. Stuart
4. Lawes
5. Martin
6. Barbeary
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Quirke
10. Smith
11. Odogwu
12. Kelly (Aka God King)
13. Lawrence
14. Loader
15. Steward

16. Capon
17. Obano
18. Heyes
19. Moon
20. Willis
21. JVP
22. F.Smith
23. Parton/Freeman

Would be a good one. I don't really know against that opposition if you needed many "established" players