South Africa vs Wales (14 June - Pretoria)

[SaintsFan_Webby]

How about giving some credit when it's due?
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Oh the irony. De Kock has been consistently excellent for Saracens over the last two seasons yet you dismiss him out of hand because he's playing abroad. That's equally narrow minded as any provincial rivalries.

 

[gingergenius]

Ok, reading the Western Mail today everyone seems to think the ref was shocking; Gatland especially. The turning point was when AWJ 'knocked the ball on' 1 metre from the SA tryline, whereas during video analysis Gatland apparantly saw hands in the ruck. But whatever. There's always the home Autumn tests with our full strength squad with a decent referee who doesn't play 2 minute advantages to SA compared to Wales' 10 seconds. Prat.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> And on Williams' try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
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Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
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So basically you're saying Shane Williams skinned them without tremendous pace? He's the best winger in the World because he has the speed of mind to do the right thing in those situations. Habana, if he had all those defenders in front of him, would never had side-stepped his way to the line.

I agree. I dont like the guy (for no other reason then he scores against us too much), I dont like the Welsh team that much (preferred them when they lost to us all the time), not even a big fan of the Welsh contributors on the board (well some of the younger, more militant referee bashers anyway), but I dont think anyone could say that he is not the form winger in the world game at this time.

He's 31 now and its taken him a long time to get there so I'd say over their respective careers, Habana has been more effective, but at the moment I'd prefer Williams in my fantasy team to Habana.
[/b]

Williams has scored only 1 try against you (I assume by "us" you meant Ireland) so I don't see the problem. <_<
And you'd have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn't call a knock-on on SA's line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning.
[/b][/quote]

Fans who moan about referees are so tedious.

Also, in your attempts to make out that SW is the best winger in the world you appear to be trying to show how crap Habana is... why not reach the conclusion that they're both sick wingers, one may be a little quicker, the other may have a better step.... doesn't matter. They both score hatfuls of tries and their teams are lucky to have them.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
Ok, reading the Western Mail today everyone seems to think the ref was shocking; Gatland especially. The turning point was when AWJ 'knocked the ball on' 1 metre from the SA tryline, whereas during video analysis Gatland apparantly saw hands in the ruck. But whatever. There's always the home Autumn tests with our full strength squad with a decent referee who doesn't play 2 minute advantages to SA compared to Wales' 10 seconds. Prat.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> And on Williams' try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
[/b]

Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
[/b][/quote]
So basically you're saying Shane Williams skinned them without tremendous pace? He's the best winger in the World because he has the speed of mind to do the right thing in those situations. Habana, if he had all those defenders in front of him, would never had side-stepped his way to the line.

I agree. I dont like the guy (for no other reason then he scores against us too much), I dont like the Welsh team that much (preferred them when they lost to us all the time), not even a big fan of the Welsh contributors on the board (well some of the younger, more militant referee bashers anyway), but I dont think anyone could say that he is not the form winger in the world game at this time.

He's 31 now and its taken him a long time to get there so I'd say over their respective careers, Habana has been more effective, but at the moment I'd prefer Williams in my fantasy team to Habana.
[/b]

Williams has scored only 1 try against you (I assume by "us" you meant Ireland) so I don't see the problem. <_<
And you'd have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn't call a knock-on on SA's line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning.
[/b][/quote]

Fans who moan about referees are so tedious.

Also, in your attempts to make out that SW is the best winger in the world you appear to be trying to show how crap Habana is... why not reach the conclusion that they're both sick wingers, one may be a little quicker, the other may have a better step.... doesn't matter. They both score hatfuls of tries and their teams are lucky to have them.
[/b][/quote]
Doesn't change the fact that Shane > Habana on current form. And if you'd read Gay Guy's post, he was doing the same to Shane Williams (making him out to be crap) in a way that made no sense.
Also, when a referee makes blatant errors I think I have a right to be ****** off. Or should I accept that a 37 - 21 loss is a fair reflection on the game? :lol: South Africa are better than Wales on current form, no doubt, but there were definately occasions where the referee butchered the game with 50/50 decisions or decisions that were completely unfair.
At least we're in the best position of all the NH teams right now; I can barely wait for the Autumn Tests.

 

[Bull]

The ref was definitely crap but I won't say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we'll be ready.

Habana > Williams

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Wish we could say that our 7th choice (as some have said Conradie was) is't international class after playing like he did in the first test. It just showes how up against it we are, the srength in depth is unbelievable.
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I think that was only me rating him as a 5th choice in SA, 7th choice including Claasens (Bath) and de Kock (Sarries) . It was a one off lucky game against an under performing Wales, mere coincidence imo, he's been average for years. My Western Province supporting comrades have forgotten that though and aren't even acknowledging that Kockett kicked both Januaries and Conradies ass in the S14!! [/b][/quote]

De Kock was terrbile when he played for us, how can you judge someone based on a totally different competition overseas? He's been below average for years. Pienaar's also too slow, so I don't see how you think he'd fare better. I would've also preferred Kockett's quick service in this game.
How about not bringing provincialism into everything? You're the only bok supporter doing it. And Januarie played MUCH better than Kockett in the Super 14, I can't think of anyone besides you who thought otherwise. Kockett was disappointing when he started in place of Pienaar. Hence, why I rate Vermaak better. Bolla had a good game simply put. Gareth Edwards himself said that Bolla played well and would be unlucky to be dropped. How about giving some credit when it's due?
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Oh come on, didn't you see the " " at the end? What more must I do?! I've always given any Stormer support sick, and probably will to the end of my days.

And just BTW Kockett & Januarie was definitely the form SA scrum-halves in the S14, Januarie would get the nod from me due to his existing international experience but Kockett should definitely be in the Bok squad. WAAAAAY ahead of Conradie.. I'm not sure what you're suggesting about Kockett replacing Pienaar during the S14... Pienaar was injured for a few weeks and was kept out of a starting spot due to him being out played by Kockett, which take some doing considering Muirs rotation policy.

I'm not that bias on provincialism though, I've said I don't think Beast (who made planet rugbys S14 team of 2008), Jacobs, Conradie and Mujati cut it at international level (yet in Beast's and Mujati's case) that makes 2 Sharks players and 2 Stormers players. :blink:

It's quite clear PdV favours Cape based players, like when he added Dollie to Bok squad. A fly-half that's smaller than Shane Williams, and has only played Vodacom Cup rugby on a consistent basis, and not even a S14 cap to his name! I guess every coach has favourite players though, White liked Willemse and Miesiekind for some reason, and PdV seems to like Conradie and Jacobs.

We'll see how well those 2 hold up in the Tri-Nations, I expect Conradie to implode personally. And sure the Kiwi's and Aussie's are partically happy that he's in the squad.

Please, if any member from NZ or AUS disagree with me, do make a post. I'd like to see if my bias is really that bad (not ruling it out).

Would you like your team to face Kockett/ Pienaar/ Vermaak/ du Preez/ Januarie or Conradie?

 

[Sir Speedy]

The ref was definitely crap but I won't say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we'll be ready.

Habana > Williams
[/b]

No effect? What about when SA used hands in the ruck when we were a metre from your line? Or the time where, after a good minute advantage, Shane Williams had to be called back after SA had dropped the ball and he had kicked it forward for a possible breakaway score (still, the advantage was ridiculous)? I'd say his decisions were very effective in favour of SA, especially since if he had pinged you for hands in the ruck, you would have been yellow-carded.
But whatever. I'm sounding too bitter and annoying here so I'll stop. I'm glad we have three tests in the Autumn against the big three. This should be a real test for us, and one or two or even three scalps would do us hella good.
Also Shane = Habana. Lets leave it at that. <_< (....not).

 

[Steve-o]

Shane Williams got called back because he stepped on the line before dispatching his kick, the touch judge raised the flag, but the ref didn't notice it immediately.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Shane Williams got called back because he stepped on the line before dispatching his kick, the touch judge raised the flag, but the ref didn't notice it immediately.
[/b]

Was that directed at me and my long advantage quip? If so then you've misunderstood me; I wa talking about another instance.

 

[Steve-o]

Yeah, I didn't read your sentence properly, I was thinking of another instance.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Edit: Or are you talking about something else?
[/b]

I think it was the penalty which took SA 23 - 21 in front. Beforehand, SA dropped the ball and Shane Williams chipped ahead and gave chase. At least I think. Actually, watching it again, nothing was on and it was actually when SA went 20 - 15 in front. Ignore me then. :C Although I was right with the other dodgy decision: where the referee deemed AWJ had knocked the ball on, SA had in fact stolen it illegally. Nevermind though, eh? <_<

 

[shazbooger]

And you'd have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn't call a knock-on on SA's line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning. [/b]

Ahhh look man, I hear what your saying but this is the second thread in a row when youve done little but talking up Wales, complain about the referee without really looking at how bloody good South Africa are.

In the same way, the Irish could be whinging about the numerous decisions that went Australia's way earlier on Saturday (two 5 metre scrums for Ireland and two free kicks against us? Against the Aussie scrum? Give me a break). However, they either even themselves out during a game, or later in the season and they rarely have a big impact on a scoreline. I watched both games and while Wales were better in the second test, they were nowhere near good enough to beat South Africa.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'> And you'd have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn't call a knock-on on SA's line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning. [/b]

Ahhh look man, I hear what your saying but this is the second thread in a row when youve done little but talking up Wales, complain about the referee without really looking at how bloody good South Africa are.

In the same way, the Irish could be whinging about the numerous decisions that went Australia's way earlier on Saturday (two 5 metre scrums for Ireland and two free kicks against us? Against the Aussie scrum? Give me a break). However, they either even themselves out during a game, or later in the season and they rarely have a big impact on a scoreline. I watched both games and while Wales were better in the second test, they were nowhere near good enough to beat South Africa.
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Sorry, but where in this thread, apart from after the game, have I talked up Wales? To be honest, if you can't see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that's your problem I'm afraid. And where have I said we're better than SA or that SA aren't a good side? If you check, you'll see I said that they are better than us...Point is, we could have won that game, simple as.
"Nowhere good enough to beat South Africa", is the overstatement of the decade. Just that instant which I've picked on numerous times here: where the referee deemed that AWJ had knocked on the ball metres from the SA line when it had been stolen illegally is enough to prove that the ref made a dodgy and match-changing decision. In all fairness, the final score greatly flattered SA; we were much better than the scoreline suggests.

 

[shazbooger]

To be honest, if you can't see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that's your problem I'm afraid. [/b]

The scary thing is you really do believe that dont you? Then again I suppose your right ................ if when you say "one of the best" you mean one of the top ................. eh ......................10?

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'> To be honest, if you can't see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that's your problem I'm afraid. [/b]

The scary thing is you really do believe that dont you? Then again I suppose your right ................ if when you say "one of the best" you mean one of the top ................. eh ......................10?
[/b][/quote]
:lol: Well you're already openly admitted that you hate Wales, so carry on buddy you're giving me a good laugh.

 

[loratadine]

Habana > Williams


lmaoooo what a joke? you are joking right? ye?

ummmmmm shane williams is the best winger in the world at the moment full stop

maybe its a welsh thing, but we like our wingers to entertain to jink, to step and to genuinely leave defenders looking stupid... if i want to see a "paceman" ill watch the olympics thankyou very much

i wonder if habana would score 43 tries in 56 games playing for largely a **** team that lost most of its games to be honest.

and i would agree... we aint one of the best at the moment id say its kind of like this

south africa
new zealand



australia argentina wales

england france

ireland

scotland

 

[dullonien]

What the hell's going on in here then?

To be honest with you, some stupid remarks are being chucked around by everyone at the moment! Comments like Gay-Guy's who obviously dislikes Shane Williams, fair enough if you do, but don't make out he hasn't been one of the best players in the world so far this year, almost every pundit and nautral believe so!

Just don't get people who have to bash someone just for the hell of it, knowing full well it'll enrage others! He's scored in almost every match since the begining of the world cup (v England being the exception), 2 in quite a few actually! Added to that he's been immense in defence, not letting anyone past. How much more does a player have to do? It's just unbelievable!

In the end, if it was meant to be a wum, then fair enough. But I really hope not, as this is the last decent rugby forum, every other is overrun with wankers and hatred, where 90% of the posts are wum's fishing for response.

Well, end of another rant. Sorry, their getting quite regular now, lol.

 

[Cymro]

What the hell's going on in here then?

To be honest with you, some stupid remarks are being chucked around by everyone at the moment! Comments like Gay-Guy's who obviously dislikes Shane Williams, fair enough if you do, but don't make out he hasn't been one of the best players in the world so far this year, almost every pundit and nautral believe so!

Just don't get people who have to bash someone just for the hell of it, knowing full well it'll enrage others! He's scored in almost every match since the begining of the world cup (v England being the exception), 2 in quite a few actually! Added to that he's been immense in defence, not letting anyone past. How much more does a player have to do? It's just unbelievable!

In the end, if it was meant to be a wum, then fair enough. But I really hope not, as this is the last decent rugby forum, every other is overrun with wankers and hatred, where 90% of the posts are wum's fishing for response.

Well, end of another rant. Sorry, their getting quite regular now, lol. [/b]

Sums it up really

 

[BLR]

I think you need to all have a big group hug and get on with it, let the results speak for themselves...

 

[Dmx#1]

People calm down and lets be realistic for once

Habana>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>S.Williams

 

[nam97]

What the hell's going on in here then?

To be honest with you, some stupid remarks are being chucked around by everyone at the moment! Comments like Gay-Guy's who obviously dislikes Shane Williams, fair enough if you do, but don't make out he hasn't been one of the best players in the world so far this year, almost every pundit and nautral believe so!

Just don't get people who have to bash someone just for the hell of it, knowing full well it'll enrage others! He's scored in almost every match since the begining of the world cup (v England being the exception), 2 in quite a few actually! Added to that he's been immense in defence, not letting anyone past. How much more does a player have to do? It's just unbelievable!

In the end, if it was meant to be a wum, then fair enough. But I really hope not, as this is the last decent rugby forum, every other is overrun with wankers and hatred, where 90% of the posts are wum's fishing for response.

Well, end of another rant. Sorry, their getting quite regular now, lol.
[/b]

It's because Willaims is Welsh and no one recognizes Welsh talent for what it's worth. Although I do agree he has been brilliant, the more I watch him the more I appreciate him. The only let down for me is that he never shows when we play him.