South Africa vs Wales (14 June - Pretoria)

[Dmx#1]

On the tier issue, I'd say Australia, France and England are definitely 1st tier.
They (FRA & ENG) are the only teams from the NH to make a WC final and/or win it. Adding to that are the only constant threats from up north, imo of course.

1st tier teams don't get knocked out of the WC in the pool stages and don't only beat the Boks once in 100 years.

The lady at the ticket office was willing to sell me a scholar (for under 18's) ticket because nobody was willing to pay so much to see Wales. Only the season ticket seats (the bottom section) were full. Sorry but that's the truth, don't shoot the messenger.

And on CURRENT FORM (seems to be the it word) Jean De Villiers is the best players in the world!!!1!1! Woooohah! [/b]

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[Sir Speedy]

Well that was a pointless contribution. France genuine threats, especially after losing by 60 points to NZ last year. England genuine threats after conceding 100+ points last year.
:lol:
Okey dokey.

 

[Incredible Schalk]

Well that was a pointless contribution. France genuine threats, especially after losing by 60 points to NZ last year. England genuine threats after conceding 100+ points last year.
:lol:
Okey dokey.
[/b]

France had a third choice team out there lost by 30 points and then 50. Making imaginary rankings out of this team beating this team but lost to this team sort of style is completely pointless.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
Well that was a pointless contribution. France genuine threats, especially after losing by 60 points to NZ last year. England genuine threats after conceding 100+ points last year.
:lol:
Okey dokey.
[/b]

France had a third choice team out there lost by 30 points and then 50. Making imaginary rankings out of this team beating this team but lost to this team sort of style is completely pointless.
[/b][/quote]
Sorry, I meant they conceded 60 points in one game. Regardless, Stevo-o can say "These teams came before and played well whereas Wales came before and were ****" all he likes since we aren't that team anymore. I'd say that coming to SA after a long season with many key players missing and pushing the World Champions all the way away from home is very impressive. You can WUM all you like - but it gets really tedious in my opinion.

 

[Steve-o]

Wooh hold up Speedy, don't put words in my mouth.
I did not say Wales are crap.
I consider Ireland (my favorite NH team) 2nd tier but don't think they're crap. They're just not a 1st tier team.

You think SA were trying their hardest on Saturday? Oh dear me..

And lora, 4 tries in 2 games makes Jean De Villiers the best player in the world ON CURRENT FORM!!!1!1!
(gets annoying hey? sucks having a bit of your own medicine hey lora?)

 

[loratadine]

ummm well i think anyone who claims shanes the best in the world atm has every right to say that cos the truth is he is... thats not at all outlandish its the truth mate.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Wooh hold up Speedy, don't put words in my mouth.
I did not say Wales are crap.
I consider Ireland (my favorite NH team) 2nd tier but don't think they're crap. They're just not a 1st tier team.

You think SA were trying their hardest on Saturday? Oh dear me..

And lora, 4 tries in 2 games makes Jean De Villiers the best player in the world ON CURRENT FORM!!!1!1!
(gets annoying hey? sucks having a bit of your own medicine hey lora?)
[/b]

I don't understand you though. This is the best Welsh team in ages (I'd say it's a more complete side than the side that won the GS in 05) and we have so much time to improve our game. How on Earth can you call France and England 1st tier teams and not Wales? Because of past acheivements? If France beat AUS on their tour this year (they are touring AUS aren't they?) then that shows that they're in good form now (or it could means that AUS are playing ****). England only a few weeks ago, struggled to beat a pathetic Barbarians side and only last week got dominated for the last 60 minutes of the game and yet they're 1st tier?
Wales however, turn up in the second test against the World Champions and come within inches of perhaps winning the game, and they're 2nd tier? That makes no sense! While Wales used to put in good one-off performances and then get slaughtered in other games, this one under Gatland looks to maintain consistency and could be (note: Before I get bashed, I said could be) World beaters in a few years if we improve.

 

[loratadine]

i think this is stupid

the tiers are this in no particular order

tier 1
nz
sa
aus
eng
fra
wal
ire
arg
sco

tier 2
ita
fiji
ton
sam


etc etc

lets be realistic here, and not be completely disrespectful to the most passionate rugby nation on this planet.

 

[Cymro]

I reckon there are 3 tears at the moment!

SA and NZ are in tear 1 without a doubt

but then the rest are split between tear 2-3!

 

[gingergenius]

The OFFICIAL iRB rankings as of 16/6/08:

1. South Africa
2. New Zealand
3. Argentina
4. Australia
5. England
6. Wales
7. France
8. Ireland
9. Scotland
10. Fiji

which backs up my theory that there's the top 2 and then anyone out of the next 5 or 6 who could break into it.

 

[Steve-o]

Sir Speedy, you wanna be judge on the here now hey (no past), you got 80 points put on you in 2 games. 1st tier material eh? You don't just move into the tier 1 category after 6 months. Doesn't happen. France and England have been the most competitive and most consistent rugby teams from the NH.
16 points = inches of victory?
The Boks were experimenting a new game play and when it wasn't working they upped the solid hard grafting rugby and finished off the game. Everybody, other than the usual Welsh suspects, noticed that the Boks were basically always in control.

I tried very hard to be calm and non critical after the game on this thread but **** dude you and lora don't quit. If I gotta hear this whining and arrogant remarks from supporters who's team got convincing beaten in a Test series then I wish for the sake of everybodys sanity you never achieve anything worth being arrogant about.

And lora, you just to damn bias to have a constructive debate. If Wales had an ass (Newport?) your head would be in

 

[shazbooger]

I tried very hard to be calm and non critical after the game on this thread but **** dude you and lora don't quit. If I gotta hear this whining and arrogant remarks from supporters who's team got convincing beaten in a Test series then I wish for the sake of everybodys sanity you never achieve anything worth being arrogant about.[/b]

You know you cant win. I'd just give it up and move on. Its become a pointless exercise anyhoo.

 

[Sir Speedy]

16 points = inches of victory?
The Boks were experimenting a new game play and when it wasn't working they upped the solid hard grafting rugby and finished off the game. Everybody, other than the usual Welsh suspects, noticed that the Boks were basically always in control.
[/b]

Yep. Finished off the game with some solid hard grafting rugby after stealing the ball illegally 2 metres from their own line. Also, please tell me where I said Wales are a 1st tier team? Really, SA and NZ at their best are in a league of their own - what I said was that how the hell can you consider England and France, at the moment, tier two teams and not Wales? And please don't try and call me arrogant; if SA hadn't needed to cheat to stop us from potentially scoring at the moment I've already described, we'd have had a chance at retaining the lead and possibly winning. Apparantly though, everyone is oblivious to this as SA would obviously have regained the lead and scored a further 17 points.
Oh well, I guess I'm oblivious to that fact because I'm an ignorant Welshman... <_<

 

[loratadine]

im quite enjoying our debate steve-o to be honest. just because im disagreeing with what your saying doesnt mean im blinded by welsh biasness. Granted im a proud, fiercely patriotic welshmen, but these are genuinely my opinions. I would go onto say however that in the springboks at the moment you have the best side in the world and to be fair i can only see new zealand coming close at the moment. Cant wait to see the boks nd the blacks get there teeth into each other.

 

[nam97]

If we're harping on about tiers than no way can Wales be in the top. Stop using the 6N success as a back bone to talk such rubbish.

Wales NEVER beat Aus, NZ and SA who are all top nations. In fact, they never even get close with the exception of getting within 5 points at Cardiff on the odd occasion. Wales were pathetic (be honest here) against a mediocre SA side over the last few weeks, how can they be ranked alongside them? Doesn't make sense.

WALES: Start winning games against SH teams outside of Millenium Stadium (which you hardly ever do anyway) and then you'd have a solid case to work with.

 

[KZNSharksFan]

You welsh are getting a bad reputation now, starting to sound like sore losers who won't let the game go. I think your whole bloody country has small man syndrome. Wales got hammered, shane williams played well, as did de villiers. If habana had as much space as williams did and only had chavhanga marking him, it would have been a totally different story!!!!!!

2 games do not make an individual or a team great FFS :ranting:

Lets have a look at the world rankings where wales incidentally are 6th i think! SA=1st so be quiet and you can bring your silly tier **** to the party when you're in a better position to argue your nations supposed godliness! :bananarock:

 

[Jer1cho]

Internet working again at last, anyway, Wales were much improved. Shane Williams PWNED like 5 Boks!!!!! What a player!

Ricky Januarie had the worst game i have ever seen him play, his blunders cost 2 tries against us. Chavhanga was also terrible, and looked like he wasn't in the mood to be on that field. Juan Smit had another star performance, while John Smit also had a below average performance. Victor Matfield proved yet again why he is the best in the business. I also think that when Kankowski came on, he made a massive impact on the game, as did Francois Steyn.

But yeah, we need some players to pull up their socks, otherwise we will get a nice surprise in the Tri nations. . .

 

[Cymro]

You welsh are getting a bad reputation now, starting to sound like sore losers who won't let the game go. I think your whole bloody country has small man syndrome. Wales got hammered, shane williams played well, as did de villiers. If habana had as much space as williams did and only had chavhanga marking him, it would have been a totally different story!!!!!!

2 games do not make an individual or a team great FFS :ranting:

Lets have a look at the world rankings where wales incidentally are 6th i think! SA=1st so be quiet and you can bring your silly tier **** to the party when you're in a better position to argue your nations supposed godliness! :bananarock: [/b]

Stood away long enough without commenting about Shane Williams, excuses etc but im sorry it was the SH posters who brought the tiers onto here. So go and check the facts first please.

Well done for looking at the rankings its not that hard, even I look at it from time to time and wish Wales were in a better position!

No sore losers are the ones who send death threats to people much like the Polish to Howard Webb and the Kiwis to Wayne Barnes!

And no not all of us are sore losers go through this thread, if it aint to hard for you and look for the posters who have become sore losers, I think you will find one or two at the most!

Also stop making excuses to why Shane Williams look good also! Its double standards now! <_<

 

[Cymro]

If we're harping on about tiers than no way can Wales be in the top. Stop using the 6N success as a back bone to talk such rubbish.

Wales NEVER beat Aus, NZ and SA who are all top nations. In fact, they never even get close with the exception of getting within 5 points at Cardiff on the odd occasion. Wales were pathetic (be honest here) against a mediocre SA side over the last few weeks, how can they be ranked alongside them? Doesn't make sense.

WALES: Start winning games against SH teams outside of Millenium Stadium (which you hardly ever do anyway) and then you'd have a solid case to work with. [/b]

Urm .... where shall I start?

No only a few are harping on about tiers anyone with common sense will see there are roughly 3 tiers! With SA and NZ in Tier 1 on their own! Then Tier 2 and Tier 3 are a mixture again, that change frequently! And yes we can talk about 6 Nations success because currently Wales are the best side in the Northen Hemesphire until 8th Feburary 2009 rolls round!

Calling the SA side mediocre made me laugh a little bit because you honestly think that was the Welsh first team that was sent to SA, do you think that were the player who played in Wales Sucessful 6 Nations campagin! Yes South Africa were missing players like Du Preez and Burger but Wales were missing some big guns like Henson and Peel / Phillips! Think your pathetic really for calling Wales pathetic. What was Gatland meant to do? Not tour SA or call up crappier players?
Hmm ....

Yes Wales cannot rank alongside NZ and SA because SA and NZ are clearly better than them!

And about winning games, it does not matter where you win them its along as you win them! Another childish and silly comment!

Make no bones about it here, im not defending this tour, far from it go through my posts and you will see that I dont think Wales is a Tier 1 nation. I dont think the tour was a success. I do think SA are the best side in the World. I do think Shane Williams is a great winger and Habana is equally as great. Im also defending some of the comments made because they are at times unwarrented and I clearly dont remember how many Welsh fans have sent death threats to the ref after the second test like many NZ to Wayne Barnes <_<

What this tour showed was two things, how good SA were and what a lack of depth Wales has!

 

[loratadine]

cant fault this, i dont think any welsh poster has denied that south africa deserved to win, granted when the match first finnished i was fuming, but when i calmed down i openly said that the boks deserved to win which they did. The only arguement ive had on here is the sh bully boys going on about wales with phrases like

pathetic
tier 2 rugby nation
little man syndrome


find it hugely disrespectful, and as a passionate welshmen its my duty to defend such remarks, and im not doing it in a stupid way like

walez iz the bezt lolz !!11!!!!11!!!1!1! im actually trying to get my point across and back it up with why i think like that. Unfortunately, it seems that us welsh fans have a bit of a stigmata around us, which could possibly be my fault for past misdemeanours, but to generalise all welsh posters, and all posts is very racist... but im sure most of you dont even consider us a race.

anyways, i think wales at home have a really good chance at beating the boks... in my opinion the gulf in class was not 16 points... and with our defensive general henson back for the autum game nd our little ginger scavenger marty williams back im pretty confident that we can run the boks very very close, and i wont lie to you, i think in the autum we can beat south africa and australlia... our physicality at home will be way too much for the aussies. Im still not to sure about new zealand this year.... our "little man" complex really kicks in bad against these guys. But lol who knows.

ok soooo heres something else im throwing about

if south africa went on a 2 heck even three year loosing streak, i would never consider them a secon tier rugby nation... got way too much respect for them, for there tradition for there heritage, for there history and there place inside rugby to come out with such derogratory and belittling bullshit. Everyones going to dissagree on this. But thats my opinion, doesnt make me childish, doesnt make me biased. just the way it goes... I HATE england with a passion i make no bones about it, but i consider them tier 1, i consider scotland,ireland and argentina to be tier 1 also. the irb officialy classify wales scotland and ireland tier one, so if were dragging the official rankings into this, then ill drag in the official irb tiers.