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dullonien
Guest
We still lost though :wah:
We've seen how important Henson is on this tour imo. Shane Williams wasn't really on the end of enough backline moves. Without Henson we can't seem to create enough space out wide for the lethal finisher. 1 on 1, that's all we need to create, because at the moment he'll skin the last defender (or four) every time.
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Steve-o
Guest
When did you hear the other 2,399,00 other Welshmen blame the result on the ref?
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Actually that would be 2,949,999.
Go onto the Scrum V or 606; OR you can just read some of the previous posts on here.
And on Williams' try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
Habana had a soild game by all accounts, unfortunately for him he was marked out of the game (that's why we were slicing the mid field so often) but cut in field a few times and showed his strength by mixing it up with the bigger guys.
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Incredible Schalk
Guest
I was really dissapointed with Chavanga in the two tests, especially yesterday. Showed awful technique under the high ball and got turned over a few times leading to the Williams try. I dont think he will get away with it against the All Blacks so i think he should be atleast benched. Remember he had been injured for months before going straight into the first test.
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danny
Guest
yeah, Chavanga will have to go for the Tri-nations due to not only defence but his lack of workrate. I still feel he would be a good guy to bring off the bench but he must be given the ball in space to prosper.
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nelson
Guest
chavhanga really does need the ball with enough space to really show his full potential ... to burn his speed
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Gay-Guy
Guest
Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
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Steve-o
Guest
That's true hey, forgot about that. He was in superb form before he got injured (grade 2 hamstring tear) and didn't train on Monday or Tuesday because of small ****les from the 1st Test. Ndungane should get a run against Italy.
Beast played ok in his debut, held the scrum better than Mujati. We need to get our best props out on the park, J du Plessis and vd Merwe (2 strongest scrummagers in SA) should replace Beast and Mujati (2 most dynamic props in SA). Can't help but think our scrum is going the Australian route with the 2 Zimbabweans in the mix.
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silent_shadow
Guest
Not the best game after the first 20 minutes. We tried to do too much I think. Chavanga has been disappointing this series, but then again Wales have closed him and Habana off very well and Habana hasn't done much better. Hopefully he'll play well against Italy and regain his confidence. Jacobs unsurprisingly gave way under pressure and did nothing on defense, I'd rather have Steyn at 12 with Jean at 13. Smit was bad especially after his good game last week. And I think Percy should've gone on much earlier or started at least. Was I the only one disappointed about Spies? I didn't think he did much last week and he was worse this week. Beast started off very well but then also played badly after the first 20 minutes. Bekker played very well when he came on. I really hate to say this, but... I missed Bolla and his quick service, it suits the game we want to play much better. Du Preez's also quite slow though so I guess it's something we'll have to handle.
Despite not playing our best, I was still never worried about losing the game. I was sure find a way to win comfortably, it's a nice habit we picked up during the WC.
Despite not playing our best, I was still never worried about losing the game. I was sure find a way to win comfortably, it's a nice habit we picked up during the WC.
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Steve-o
Guest
I've always been suspect about Januaries' little one two skip he does to gain momentum in the pass, and he can't pass both ways without repositioning. If you dig up some threads last year you'll see I highlighted it. Pienaar is the answer for No.9
As much as I like Jacobs play at the Sharks, he got found out today, much like Conradie (the most one dimension scrumie in contention) will be during the Tri-nations. These 2 weren't international standard when they got their debuts 4-5 years ago and they aren't now.
As much as I like Jacobs play at the Sharks, he got found out today, much like Conradie (the most one dimension scrumie in contention) will be during the Tri-nations. These 2 weren't international standard when they got their debuts 4-5 years ago and they aren't now.
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dullonien
Guest
Wish we could say that our 7th choice (as some have said Conradie was) is't international class after playing like he did in the first test. It just showes how up against it we are, the srength in depth is unbelievable.
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shtove
Guest
Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
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That's a risky little game - Welsh dragons will breathe fire upon you.
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Steve-o
Guest
I think that was only me rating him as a 5th choice in SA, 7th choice including Claasens (Bath) and de Kock (Sarries)
. It was a one off lucky game against an under performing Wales, mere coincidence imo, he's been average for years. My Western Province supporting comrades have forgotten that though and aren't even acknowledging that Kockett kicked both Januaries and Conradies ass in the S14!!
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Thingimubob
Guest
Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
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Come on, you gotta admit, he's up there with the best. And Joost van der Westhuizen (sp?) said to S4C's correspondants that Shane's probably better than Habana at teh moment, because Shane creates his own tries as well as being a superb finisher, while Habana generally needs other good players around him to create the space for him. Not taking anything away from Habana, the guy is fantastic, it's just if you think about it, Habana has had better quality players around him over the years, so doesn't exactly need to create his own tries, while Shane's been through the really bad years with Wales, so has had to be able to create his tries to help his country actually win something. And now that the players around Shane are steadily improving, he is more than capable of creating tries for himself, having easy run ins created for him and creating tries for those players around him (for example, being involved three times in the build up to Roberts try in the 1st test). So give him the respect he deserves, any decent Rugby fan can (unlike those on 606...)
And d'you really think that Sivivatu or Habana could have streaked in a try from 50 meters down the line with 4 players less than a metre or two from the touchline? I don't think so.
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Steve-o
Guest
Both Habana and Williams create tries and finish off tries after somebody else has done the hard work. Any decent rugby supporter would acknowledge that.
Williams' try yesterday was NOT created by him, it was very much an opportunistic try that he finished off superbly. He was not 50 meters out, and you do know that the 1st dotted line next to the touchline is the 5m line and the 2nd dotted line is the 15m line, right? ALL of the players were well behind the 15m line. Stop stretching the truth.
Habana has a better strike rate and has done more in the last 4 years than Williams has done in his entire career, so stop acting like after 2 solid non-try scoring games all of a sudden he's not a world class player and prolific try scorer anymore.
Christ I'm happy we don't have to put up with you guys (the barrel scrapers) until November.
Williams' try yesterday was NOT created by him, it was very much an opportunistic try that he finished off superbly. He was not 50 meters out, and you do know that the 1st dotted line next to the touchline is the 5m line and the 2nd dotted line is the 15m line, right? ALL of the players were well behind the 15m line. Stop stretching the truth.
Habana has a better strike rate and has done more in the last 4 years than Williams has done in his entire career, so stop acting like after 2 solid non-try scoring games all of a sudden he's not a world class player and prolific try scorer anymore.
Christ I'm happy we don't have to put up with you guys (the barrel scrapers) until November.
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Thingimubob
Guest
calm down! everyone's entitled to a bloody opinion, and I'd say skinning 4 defenders is pretty creative. All I meant was atm, I reckon Shane's a bit better. And sorry I wasn't attentive enough, just thought they were a bit closer! All I meant was that I doubt Habana or SIvivatu would have reached the line in a straight sprint, and would have had to try and step inside. And when did I say Habana wasn't a world class player and not a prolific try scorer? Did I not say he's fantastic (which I've always thought) or did you just blot that detail out for the sake of having a go at me and calling be a 'barrel scraper'? As I said, Habana is brilliant, but atm, I think Shane's probably better. And I'm not a barrel scraper, I'm just expressing my opinion on Shane Williams, who's been my favourite player for god knows how long.
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gingergenius
Guest
calm down! everyone's entitled to a bloody opinion, and I'd say skinning 4 defenders is pretty creative. All I meant was atm, I reckon Shane's a bit better. And sorry I wasn't attentive enough, just thought they were a bit closer! All I meant was that I doubt Habana or SIvivatu would have reached the line in a straight sprint, and would have had to try and step inside. And when did I say Habana wasn't a world class player and not a prolific try scorer? Did I not say he's fantastic (which I've always thought) or did you just blot that detail out for the sake of having a go at me and calling be a 'barrel scraper'? As I said, Habana is brilliant, but atm, I think Shane's probably better. And I'm not a barrel scraper, I'm just expressing my opinion on Shane Williams, who's been my favourite player for god knows how long.
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I'll come in from a neutral POV and say at this exact point in time Shane Williams is the best wing in international rugby, on form.
However, rather than being helped by having good players around you it helps Williams that he's the only guy with speed in the Welsh backline. He doesn't play as a conventional winger, he pops up everywhere and goes looking for the ball. SA have linebreakers throughout their backline, Habana isn't their go-to guy. Williams is made to look better by the fact that he does a hell of a lot of work for Wales that other wingers don't have to do... fair play to him for it.
Habana's got the same thing as Jason Robinson had for a period in his England career - the opposition have realised he's world class and have marked him out of the game. He'll have to learn, like Robinson did, how to work around this.
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shazbooger
Guest
I agree. I dont like the guy (for no other reason then he scores against us too much), I dont like the Welsh team that much (preferred them when they lost to us all the time), not even a big fan of the Welsh contributors on the board (well some of the younger, more militant referee bashers anyway), but I dont think anyone could say that he is not the form winger in the world game at this time.
He's 31 now and its taken him a long time to get there so I'd say over their respective careers, Habana has been more effective, but at the moment I'd prefer Williams in my fantasy team to Habana.
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silent_shadow
Guest
I think that was only me rating him as a 5th choice in SA, 7th choice including Claasens (Bath) and de Kock (Sarries)
. It was a one off lucky game against an under performing Wales, mere coincidence imo, he's been average for years. My Western Province supporting comrades have forgotten that though and aren't even acknowledging that Kockett kicked both Januaries and Conradies ass in the S14!! [/b][/quote]De Kock was terrbile when he played for us, how can you judge someone based on a totally different competition overseas? He's been below average for years. Pienaar's also too slow, so I don't see how you think he'd fare better. I would've also preferred Kockett's quick service in this game.
How about not bringing provincialism into everything? You're the only bok supporter doing it. And Januarie played MUCH better than Kockett in the Super 14, I can't think of anyone besides you who thought otherwise. Kockett was disappointing when he started in place of Pienaar. Hence, why I rate Vermaak better. Bolla had a good game simply put. Gareth Edwards himself said that Bolla played well and would be unlucky to be dropped. How about giving some credit when it's due?
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Sir Speedy
Guest
Ok, reading the Western Mail today everyone seems to think the ref was shocking; Gatland especially. The turning point was when AWJ 'knocked the ball on' 1 metre from the SA tryline, whereas during video analysis Gatland apparantly saw hands in the ruck. But whatever. There's always the home Autumn tests with our full strength squad with a decent referee who doesn't play 2 minute advantages to SA compared to Wales' 10 seconds. Prat.
Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
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So basically you're saying Shane Williams skinned them without tremendous pace? He's the best winger in the World because he has the speed of mind to do the right thing in those situations. Habana, if he had all those defenders in front of him, would never had side-stepped his way to the line.
And you'd have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn't call a knock-on on SA's line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning.
Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
[/b][/quote]
So basically you're saying Shane Williams skinned them without tremendous pace? He's the best winger in the World because he has the speed of mind to do the right thing in those situations. Habana, if he had all those defenders in front of him, would never had side-stepped his way to the line.
Williams has scored only 1 try against you (I assume by "us" you meant Ireland) so I don't see the problem. <_<
And you'd have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn't call a knock-on on SA's line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning.
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