[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

[truthteller]

glad world rugby cleared that up....even if given who knows what might have happened I still think england deserved the win so no point crying over spilled milk

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

glad world rugby cleared that up....even if given who knows what might have happened I still think england deserved the win so no point crying over spilled milk

Literally what did it clear up though?

 

[The5thOfficial]

The knock on was what directly caused the ball to go over the try line in the first place, how on earth could it be deemed a different phase of play? It was literally the last contact prior to the grounding.

No, my point was that it wasn't spotted, it was missed so play went on. TMO was asked to review the grounding wasn't he?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

No, my point was that it wasn't spotted, it was missed so play went on. TMO was asked to review the grounding wasn't he?

I don't know the question used but how is "it should have been a try because the referee asked the wrong question" the same as "it should have been a try"? We have evidence there was a knock on therefore it should never have been a try. We could then go and whinge to the WR saying the TMO should be investigated for not spotting the knock on. Literally EXACTLY what Wales have done.

Just to point out this is now the 3rd year in a row in which Welsh fans have claimed the entire reason England won was down to a single decision (either by players or officials) and tbh it is pretty arrogant.

2016 - North not being in touch (fair enough) but following up with the claim it was a guaranteed try afterwards when Webb had just run down a dead end facing 2 English forwards 2m from the side lines with no room to maneuver.

2017 - JD2's clearance kick. Again little credit to England for the counter attack and the claim that if it had gone straight out it was a Wales win.

2018 - A 50/50 try early in the game that alone wouldn't have been enough to change the result anyway being used to claim Wales would have gone on to win.

This of course ignoring Wales getting an illegal try and the whole stupid tunnel situation in 2015 and the roof nonsense in 2017. Every single year we are getting this idiotic behaviour coming from Wales in this fixture and it's wearing extremely thin. Oh add to that Biggar *****ing like crazy and more whinging about a try decision in the game before England went to Australia and Wales to New Zealand. Just one year I'd like a Wales - England game where the only drama is the rugby result and not the petulant behaviour we have seen in recent years.

 

[Which Tyler]

And....
Breathe

 

[The5thOfficial]

I don't know the question used but how is "it should have been a try because the referee asked the wrong question" the same as "it should have been a try"? We have evidence there was a knock on therefore it should never have been a try. We could then go and whinge to the WR saying the TMO should be investigated for not spotting the knock on. Literally EXACTLY what Wales have done.

Just to point out this is now the 3rd year in a row in which Welsh fans have claimed the entire reason England won was down to a single decision (either by players or officials) and tbh it is pretty arrogant.

2016 - North not being in touch (fair enough) but following up with the claim it was a guaranteed try afterwards when Webb had just run down a dead end facing 2 English forwards 2m from the side lines with no room to maneuver.

2017 - JD2's clearance kick. Again little credit to England for the counter attack and the claim that if it had gone straight out it was a Wales win.

2018 - A 50/50 try early in the game that alone wouldn't have been enough to change the result anyway being used to claim Wales would have gone on to win.

This of course ignoring Wales getting an illegal try and the whole stupid tunnel situation in 2015 and the roof nonsense in 2017. Every single year we are getting this idiotic behaviour coming from Wales in this fixture and it's wearing extremely thin. Oh add to that Biggar *****ing like crazy and more whinging about a try decision in the game before England went to Australia and Wales to New Zealand. Just one year I'd like a Wales - England game where the only drama is the rugby result and not the petulant behaviour we have seen in recent years.

I think the maths proved that even with a converted try Wales would not have won that match.

But just to split hairs - Infringements, penalties, knocks ons are not always spotted and are let go. That's just a weakness of having a ref on the field of play. So does that mean that every point scored after a non seen infringement is invalid? It was the grounding of the ball not the knock on that was the issue in this case. Spotting a knock on, after the event in the replays looking for the grounding of the ball. WR seems to be thinking along the same lines. But hey I am no expert as my bio says.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think the maths proved that even with a converted try Wales would not have won that match.

But just to split hairs - Infringements, penalties, knocks ons are not always spotted and are let go. That's just a weakness of having a ref on the field of play. So does that mean that every point scored after a non seen infringement is invalid? It was the grounding of the ball not the knock on that was the issue in this case. Spotting a knock on, after the event in the replays looking for the grounding of the ball. WR seems to be thinking along the same lines. But hey I am no expert as my bio says.

Should probably add the 2nd part of my previous message was a general rant and not one aimed at you personally. No it doesn't but once we have already started splitting hairs an analyzing things like that then we can say that, with the time to see everything, a try should not have happened due to the knock on. To claim a try should have happened isn't really taking the moral high ground because we know it would have meant something was missed. I don't see how the argument can be made that the TMO was wrong missing 1 thing but then ignore something else he also missed in the same situation that would have resulted in the opposite result.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I think the maths proved that even with a converted try Wales would not have won that match.

No. Simple maths proves that if the "try" was awarded, Wales would have had either 2 or 4 more points on the board at that stage of the game and nothing else. I'm amazed how many people seem to think that the rest of the game would have played out exactly the same had the try been awarded. Even if you ignore the chaos theory type effect and assume that everything from then until the late penalty to Wales would have played out the same, surely it's clear that being within a score that late in the game would have altered the decision to kick for goal and could have led to a Welsh win.

 

[TommiG88]

No. Simple maths proves that if the "try" was awarded, Wales would have had either 2 or 4 more points on the board at that stage of the game and nothing else. I'm amazed how many people seem to think that the rest of the game would have played out exactly the same had the try been awarded. Even if you ignore the chaos theory type effect and assume that everything from then until the late penalty to Wales would have played out the same, surely it's clear that being within a score that late in the game would have altered the decision to kick for goal and could have led to a Welsh win.

But it could have also kicked England on to score more points. No one knows, and it's not even worth contemplating now.

 

[RedruthRFC]

But it could have also kicked England on to score more points. No one knows, and it's not even worth contemplating now.

Indeed, I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise, quite the opposite.

 

[bushytop]

Who knows, he's trying frantically to justify keeping his job after his cash cow Gatland moves on in the not too distant future - he has very little credibility in the rugby community so he needs to show that his attack systems score tries even when they don't.

Unless we win the 2019 World Cup I don't think there's any chance that the WRU would keep Howlers on...

However unlikely, I think myself and a lot of Welsh fans would sacrifice a couple of years under Howlers as head coach if that was the case. In all likelihood though, he'll be happily pulling Flake 99's in an ice cream van on the beautiful Welsh coast somewhere by the summer of 2020.

 

[bushytop]

World rugby say it was a try: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43046791

Sorry but that's ridiculous, the footage of the knock of beforehand is clear... I agree the TMO made a mistake (2 actually) but it still wasn't a try.

Nothing is conclusive about the knock on... it could just as easily have bounced backwards of Evans finger and then struck his knee.

End of the day though, the man who counted said no try so it was not a try. On to the Ireland game and what delights the match day officials have up their sleeves then.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Nothing is conclusive about the knock on... it could just as easily have bounced backwards of Evans finger and then struck his knee.

End of the day though, the man who counted said no try so it was not a try. On to the Ireland game and what delights the match day officials have up their sleeves then.

God help us if there are try situations that aren't clear because they will definitely take a long time over it.

 

[The5thOfficial]

Should probably add the 2nd part of my previous message was a general rant and not one aimed at you personally. No it doesn't but once we have already started splitting hairs an analyzing things like that then we can say that, with the time to see everything, a try should not have happened due to the knock on. To claim a try should have happened isn't really taking the moral high ground because we know it would have meant something was missed. I don't see how the argument can be made that the TMO was wrong missing 1 thing but then ignore something else he also missed in the same situation that would have resulted in the opposite result.

Its ok, I didn't take it personally! I'm just a little bemused why WR would even comment on something if they weren't sure of their facts. But anyway, its onwards and upwards, hopefully!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Its ok, I didn't take it personally! I'm just a little bemused why WR would even comment on something if they weren't sure of their facts. But anyway, its onwards and upwards, hopefully!

There have been many wrong decisions by TMOs or refs but the 2 times WR has stepped in and commented are the 2 time there has been a MASSIVE amount of whinging post game and claims of being robbed. The last time was Scotland in the world cup, where they justifiably could claim they were robbed as the decision decided the outcome of the match and it was a world cup. It was also clearly the wrong decision. This time there was a similar amount of whinging but it was the early part of an early game in a yearly tournament. I'll point again to the whinging side, the Welsh management went and whinged to WR and I must say the Welsh rugby management have been really pissy for a few years now. A perfect example of a group who will dish it out but are **** poor at taking it. I believe I mentioned earlier the 2015 tunnel standoff was a pre-meditated tactic by the Welsh management and England didn't play ball. 2017 the management making a massive fuss about the roof. Every single year there is just some stupid jab, something to ***** about, always SOMETHING. Fans doing this is annoying but sort of understandable but for the team management to be this petty year after year is frankly pathetic.

I mean what do you feel when the Welsh management pull a stunt like trying to send the England rugby team out before the Welsh team in a stadium with all the lights off and a booing crowd in the cold and to just stand there until the Welsh decide to finally emerge? To then top it off by whinging about the English standing their ground rather than playing along with such games? When have England ever done such things to Wales?

 

[truthteller]

I don't know the question used but how is "it should have been a try because the referee asked the wrong question" the same as "it should have been a try"? We have evidence there was a knock on therefore it should never have been a try. We could then go and whinge to the WR saying the TMO should be investigated for not spotting the knock on. Literally EXACTLY what Wales have done.

Just to point out this is now the 3rd year in a row in which Welsh fans have claimed the entire reason England won was down to a single decision (either by players or officials) and tbh it is pretty arrogant.

2016 - North not being in touch (fair enough) but following up with the claim it was a guaranteed try afterwards when Webb had just run down a dead end facing 2 English forwards 2m from the side lines with no room to maneuver.

2017 - JD2's clearance kick. Again little credit to England for the counter attack and the claim that if it had gone straight out it was a Wales win.

2018 - A 50/50 try early in the game that alone wouldn't have been enough to change the result anyway being used to claim Wales would have gone on to win.

This of course ignoring Wales getting an illegal try and the whole stupid tunnel situation in 2015 and the roof nonsense in 2017. Every single year we are getting this idiotic behaviour coming from Wales in this fixture and it's wearing extremely thin. Oh add to that Biggar *****ing like crazy and more whinging about a try decision in the game before England went to Australia and Wales to New Zealand. Just one year I'd like a Wales - England game where the only drama is the rugby result and not the petulant behaviour we have seen in recent years.

The 2016 and 2018 incidents were total failures of officials...the JD2 kick was missed to touch but lots of credit went to daly for the finish and a fair bit of stick to another powder puff cuthbert tackle....english complained about all sorts of stuff too when they lose..Wales missed alot of chances last weekend..but I still maintain england deserved the win as they took their chances. i also maintain a full welsh team would defeat a full English team, maybe we will find out next season enroute to the world cup

 

[The5thOfficial]

There have been many wrong decisions by TMOs or refs but the 2 times WR has stepped in and commented are the 2 time there has been a MASSIVE amount of whinging post game and claims of being robbed. The last time was Scotland in the world cup, where they justifiably could claim they were robbed as the decision decided the outcome of the match and it was a world cup. It was also clearly the wrong decision. This time there was a similar amount of whinging but it was the early part of an early game in a yearly tournament. I'll point again to the whinging side, the Welsh management went and whinged to WR and I must say the Welsh rugby management have been really pissy for a few years now. A perfect example of a group who will dish it out but are **** poor at taking it. I believe I mentioned earlier the 2015 tunnel standoff was a pre-meditated tactic by the Welsh management and England didn't play ball. 2017 the management making a massive fuss about the roof. Every single year there is just some stupid jab, something to ***** about, always SOMETHING. Fans doing this is annoying but sort of understandable but for the team management to be this petty year after year is frankly pathetic.

I mean what do you feel when the Welsh management pull a stunt like trying to send the England rugby team out before the Welsh team in a stadium with all the lights off and a booing crowd in the cold and to just stand there until the Welsh decide to finally emerge? To then top it off by whinging about the English standing their ground rather than playing along with such games? When have England ever done such things to Wales?

LOL wow and they say the welsh are aggrieved.

 

[TommiG88]

The 2016 and 2018 incidents were total failures of officials...the JD2 kick was missed to touch but lots of credit went to daly for the finish and a fair bit of stick to another powder puff cuthbert tackle....english complained about all sorts of stuff too when they lose..Wales missed alot of chances last weekend..but I still maintain england deserved the win as they took their chances. i also maintain a full welsh team would defeat a full English team, maybe we will find out next season enroute to the world cup

2016 Cole grounded the ball in the 1st Half although it was decided that it was held up.

Haven't beaten us in the 6 nations since 2013 = better team. Perfect logic.

 

[truthteller]

2016 Cole grounded the ball in the 1st Half although it was decided that it was held up.

Haven't beaten us in the 6 nations since 2013 = better team. Perfect logic.

BUT we won the most important one and knocked you out of your world cup and won the 3 previous times to 2014 too

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

BUT we won the most important one and knocked you out of your world cup and won the 3 previous times to 2014 too

So you count a game where Lancaster completely bottled it and changed the entire team setup and a series of games from 5+ years ago as proof that Wales are currently a superior side? Wales have lost as many games in the last year as England have in the last 5. The current England squad hold every single NH team record. By what metric are Wales better? 2 wins in 5 years against England?