[RWC2023 QF4] France vs South Africa (15/10/2023)

[Herman the German]

Almost 3k tickets on resale for Arg and NZ and 2k for the SA Eng game.

That referee has really killed the interest in this competition...

Prices are pretty nuts so no way neutral supporters will buy those tickets.

Big failure for the tournament...then again 1 hour queue to buy a bottle of water in the stadium is a good reason not to attend the game.....

Too bad, I had great expectations for this edition but the organization was lackluster, the draw idiotic and the refereeing has been abysmal. Yeah 2 great quarter finals but that's about it so far. It's gonna take 12 years before I can watch a World Cup game at a decent hour for Europe...

If you press F5 often enough and you're faster than a bunch of idle Englishmen pretending to work, it is possible to get "cheaper" tickets. And for exact those reasons mentioned in the last sentence as a neutral I'm looking forward to the game (especially to see Farell being charged down from Kolbe for a beyond shot-clock kick).

 

[ncurd]

That's my point though. If even the TMO doesn't have a clear angle to determine whether or not it was knocked forward, it should be ruled in favour of the player.

I'd say on field decision rather than in favor of the player and in this case a player with an outstretch hand deserves no favors they know the risk they are taking.

But I agree entirely my beef currently (even though I think it was forward) is BOK didn't check it, not that he may have got it wrong.

 

[Batsumy]

What the actual F, now we going to launch a fatwa against Ben o Keefe

Seriously

No but recognition that there has been some mistakes that have had an impact on the FRAvsSA match outcome would be welcome and as a result, deciding that it would not be proper to make him refer more games in this world cup would be the nice thing to do rather than ignoring the frustration and double down on that choice, a small soothing gesture in essence...looks like unfortunately, it is too much to ask to World Rugby (who had possibly something to do in not using too much the video and the general direction of refering - thats an assumption, I guess some directives are given to referees but I do not know in what sort of details)

 

[Atmavictu]

If you press F5 often enough and you're faster than a bunch of idle Englishmen pretending to work, it is possible to get "cheaper" tickets. And for exact those reasons mentioned in the last sentence as a neutral I'm looking forward to the game (especially to see Farell being charged down from Kolbe for a beyond shot-clock kick).

Don't need to do that manually, there are extensions which will do it for you and select automatically the category you want

 

[Ospervat]

Being picky, he was not in line with etzebeth and I would say that he was enough not in line to not see a marginal knock on at least

I wouldn't call what you are being as picky.

 

[Batsumy]

I wouldn't call what you are being as picky.

In fact, I read that it is the ref assistant that has signalled a deliberate knock on to BOK and not the TMO (and you see him on the replay push his beeper I think)...and BOK told him that for him it was backward.

Again, it should have been checked as there was some contradicting views in the ref team. Possibly it has been checked at the video and cleared, hopefully we will know later on.

Another interesting point that has been also made is that it would have been better/safer to have a referee team with different nationalities, BOK would have been less authoritarian if he was with other referees he know less, there would have been more discussion rather than a bunch of guys who know each other well and who are not hesitating to slap each other if needed, I thought that was a well made and valid point

 

[Horacito]

No but recognition that there has been some mistakes that have had an impact on the FRAvsSA match outcome would be welcome and as a result, deciding that it would not be proper to make him refer more games in this world cup would be the nice thing to do rather than ignoring the frustration and double down on that choice, a small soothing gesture in essence...looks like unfortunately, it is too much to ask to World Rugby (who had possibly something to do in not using too much the video and the general direction of refering - thats an assumption, I guess some directives are given to referees but I do not know in what sort of details)

except that it is clear that no one in WR thinks his work on sunday deserves punishment I guess

 

[Ospervat]

Sorry but you've got the wrong guy here. I don't really engage in discussions involving infinite permutation's around fictional semantics.

 

[Batsumy]

Sorry but you've got the wrong guy here. I don't really engage in discussions involving infinite permutation's around fictional semantics.

Must be quite boring

 

[Ospervat]

Must be quite boring

Are you one of these punters that must have the last word to prop up your low self-esteem.

 

[Batsumy]

Are you one of these punters that must have the last word to prop up your low self-esteem.

No I was just attempting a soft joke to nicely end our short and warm exchange, it failed miserably it seems !

 

[Ospervat]

Fair enough.
I apologise for my terse response.
I look forward to any future well mannered exchanges.

 

[Batsumy]

Same here and you are correct, I'm all fictional and emotional, gutted, salty (@saulan ), thats all fair comments so apologies for those not so sporty late pages, It will take me a bit of time to digest what has happened

And I think for some others as well:

SHAUN EDWARDS: I am still in shock. I cannot believe we lost

SHAUN EDWARDS: One minute you're in camp, surrounded by media, everything moving at 100 miles an hour. The next minute you're back home and it's silence. It's a strange feeling.

www.dailymail.co.uk

And I guess worth to quote Shaun comments:

We were dominant in the first half. We dominated speed of ball and didn't have to defend much because our attack was so good. I felt like if we'd scored a second try at 7-0 when the ref made a decision on a knock-on - and he is in charge - then it definitely would have been a different result.

The thing we didn't handle was their old up-and-under. South Africa put the ball up in the air and it's 7-7 instead of 14-0. They did it twice and got two tries. We struggled with it against Australia and Rassie Erasmus obviously noted that. It's a huge part of the modern game now, like a third set-piece, and they won it.

Our tries were multiple-phase, traditional scores. The first three tries they scored all came from one ruck. Sucker punches. It hurts. It's incredibly disappointing for me as defence coach because we'd worked hard all week on the maul, the advantage line, their set-piece moves. In the end they just won the aerial game and it was crucial.

It was a match worthy of a final. I watched New Zealand against Ireland on Saturday night and the standard was off the scale. New Zealand had two turnovers the whole game which is incredible. Against us, South Africa brought on the bomb squad and that had a big impact at the scrum. Ox Nche was outstanding and I give them every credit for being a brilliant team.

 

[BrokenWing]

Only example sticking in my mind is Peter Stringer running up and picking up the ball because the shot clock had run out! Can't remember who against, six nations game possibly?

If it was the one I watched yesterday, it was for the Barbarians against Australia, and there wasn't a shot clock he just took forever with the kick.

 

[IT157]

Huh? This is a massive banana skin for us. 2019 England ambushed ABs in that semi. Even IF we make it to the final, An ominous NZ likely awaits. Im am no more confident in winning the tournament than before this QF.

England looked a lot better in the preceding games in 2019.

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

Ramos took 3.27 seconds from starting to move to striking the ball. Kolbe apparently can cover 25m in about 3.1 seconds from a standing start. He runs a 10.7 100m and has one of the fastest accelerations in world rugby. It was an inspired piece of play.
Kolbe has also said that he used to play together with Ramos at Toulouse 2017-21 and studied his kick style and technique. He knew he could do it.

Really need to play 6 years with the man to study that when Go of videos exists for that objective…?
Another player who by the way played also with him in toulouse said that despite his systematic runs he never succeeded to counter any kick…

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If you check on the replay, the assist ref was in line with Etsabeth - he was best placed to make the call. Far better placed than any detractors. I honestly believe that if that ball had gone forward he would have flagged it to BOK.

I've looked back at a replay and think it was extremely marginal and at the very least worth a proper look. A huge amount hinged on the decision. It was certainly not clear and obvious he batted it backwards. I think it's marginal enough it could go either way and can only tell so much from the fuzzy replays.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I've looked back at a replay and think it was extremely marginal and at the very least worth a proper look. A huge amount hinged on the decision. It was certainly not clear and obvious he batted it backwards. I think it's marginal enough it could go either way and can only tell so much from the fuzzy replays.

Marginal for me as well. I suppose the main gripe as far as I can see is the fact that it weren't referred which I think is fair like you say as well. If for no other reason than to curb such fallout.

On the flip side you see a lot of complaints, especially from ex players, against overuse of the TMO and how it slows the game and even then rarely actually makes decisions that are universally satisfying and that's the main reason why O'Keefe is rated - backs himself and blows up play only if he feels compelled, preferring to speed up the game.

 

[saulan]

Same here and you are correct, I'm all fictional and emotional, gutted, salty (@saulan ), thats all fair comments so apologies for those not so sporty late pages, It will take me a bit of time to digest what has happened

I get the pain of a loss like that when it's close and there has been so much expectation around it. Would highly recommend taking a breather and trying to take your mind off of it (which I appreciate is tricky when the tournament continues in your country). The ifs, whats and maybes at this stage are only going to cause you more pain at this stage and aren't going to turn back time.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Marginal for me as well. I suppose the main gripe as far as I can see is the fact that it weren't referred which I think is fair like you say as well. If for no other reason than to curb such fallout.

On the flip side you see a lot of complaints, especially from ex players, against overuse of the TMO and how it slows the game and even then rarely actually makes decisions that are universally satisfying and that's the main reason why O'Keefe is rated - backs himself and blows up play only if he feels compelled, preferring to speed up the game.

There's also a possibility that the TMO looked at it from a different angle, and felt it wasn't necessary to intervene either because it was still not clear, or that he could see it went straight down/backwards.