[RWC2023 QF4] France vs South Africa (15/10/2023)

[Batsumy]

Pieter-Steph du Toit on Danty at 16'

We don't have a lot of footage of this, but it clearly seems he destroyed Danty's face again, one year after. It could have been a red one if reviewed by the refs.



I do hope he will be reported and will not be able to play again in this World Cup.

This is mad and so obvious, shame on the ref team

 

[bapean]

I thought this, but the law does say "must not overstep" so being ON the line must be OK.

I do agree with you with the english version of the law.

On the french version, it is written "Tous les joueurs de l'équipe adverse doivent se replier en arrière de leur ligne de but"

"en arrière de la ligne" in french means "backward the line" in english.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

There is no way Kolbe was behind or on the goal line when Ramos moves forward to strike the ball. The question was whether his shuffle or body movement counts as "moves in any direction." I don't think the intention of the laws is that shuffles or body moves count in this instance.

 

[Atmavictu]

There is no way he is trying to catch the ball there...he is just cynically avoiding a try. Yellow and try in my book all day long.

But as I said a very poor reading from the French

 

[Jer1cho]

There is no way he is trying to catch the ball there...he is just cynically avoiding a try. Yellow and try in my book all day long.

But as I said a very poor reading from the French

Ref, touch judges, and TMO felt differently, as confirmed by those who had access to the ref comms. What the couch coaches and couch refs interpret is unfortunately irrelevant. Everyone knew that pass in 2007 was forward, but only one side made noise about it afterwards, and it wasn't the French. This is rugby, and it happens. The hypotheticals around that are quite irrelevant.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

There is no way he is trying to catch the ball there...he is just cynically avoiding a try. Yellow and try in my book all day long.

But the law does say if he knocks it forward, in this instance it went backwards - as confirmed by BoK and TMO. And most in importantly you can also see Eben's arms across as he slaps the ball down with the movement of the hand backwards.

 

[Batsumy]

There is no way he is trying to catch the ball there...he is just cynically avoiding a try. Yellow and try in my book all day long.

But as I said a very poor reading from the French

The reality is that as long as the ball does not go forward, this cant be considered as a cynical play, as simple as that, this is in the rugby law

 

[Jer1cho]

This is mad and so obvious, shame on the ref team

How about this one?



Maybe this one?



You see the problem with having your blinkers on? You just sit and scrutinize one team while you seem to think yours is just squeeky clean?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

How about this one?



Maybe this one?



You see the problem with having your blinkers on? You just sit and scrutinize one team while you seem to think yours is just squeeky clean?

Ja, pointless dissecting a match but TBF I've done it and sadly inevitably will do it again so I'm not gonna try to get on top of French posters. Just the nature of the game and I appreciate the passion and it is sad for France to no longer be involved.

 

[Jer1cho]

Ja, pointless dissecting a match but TBF I've done it and sadly inevitably will do it again so I'm not gonna try to get on top of French posters. Just the nature of the game and I appreciate the passion and it is sad for France to no longer be involved.

The draw for this tournament has, and always will be the biggest fault.

 

[bapean]

You see the problem with having your blinkers on? You just sit and scrutinize one team while you seem to think yours is just squeeky clean?

I reckon it could have been yellow for Penaud on this one.

 

[Jer1cho]

I reckon it could have been yellow for Penaud on this one.

That's my point really. It goes both ways.

 

[Batsumy]

How about this one?



Maybe this one?

View attachment 18206

You see the problem with having your blinkers on? You just sit and scrutinize one team while you seem to think yours is just squeeky clean?

I would say that none of the french ones involved a red card, mitigation are due and I would love to see again the one of PEnaud where Du Toit seems to push up penaud head, whilst clearly Du Toit/Danty is a cynical one and hapened 30 minutes before, it would have ended up certainly as a red card in my opinion

Again, all this can be honest mistake from the referee with TMO not checking but the ruck swimming pool reffing all along the game is not

 

[saulan]

Wanted to highlight a few performances. For SA, Etzebeth was a man possessed. Kwagga had tired legs to compete with but boy did he take advantage. Same with Nche. Kolbe close to my motm but... Kriel.

Kriel is going to keep Am out of this RWC he is playing with everything he ever had. Moodie is a talent but played himself out of it against the minnows with poor decision making. Or is it a case of rotation in the semi and use it as a game to bring Am back in but with Kriel on the bench in place of Le Roux? You want to rest players if you can but it'd be a huge mistake to think that the semi is in the bag.

Props I'd keep as is. I think they should be fresh enough because they never play more than 50 at a time. Perhaps bring in Nyakane though? Mbonambi for me needs a rest but you don't dare not have him on the bench IMO? But then you might as well start him? Mostert got subbed early looked very hungry and almost angry he got pulled. You want that vs England. Duane out with Wiese coming in or Smith starting with Van Staden on the bench for me is the one no brainer. Vermeulen did what was required of him but I believe we can spare him and be better for it.

Reinach and Libbok for my money. If the goal kicking is better and it does look it I'm happy sticking to Libbok. DDA does not need rest but tempting to look at Esterhuizen just because of the familiarity he would bring. But then we are disrupting combinations and I don't want to see Moodie in the knock outs. It's fantastic that he is there and he got exposure but he is learning still and Kriel is in the form of his life with Am on the fringes. Back three as is. Just not Le Roux on the bench for me. Either Am or Van Staden or Kleyn.

But I'm stepping away from what I intend to do. France have to highlight Dupont and Mauvaka. Think the rest were there or thereabouts but those two stood out for me. Baile, yes. You have to be there. I get confused between the French backrowers but as a unit thought they played well but can't single anyone out. Penaud was good but I'd prefer Kolbe. Still fair to highlight Penaud though. For a combined xv I'd drop Arendse for Penaud out of position even if he didn't put a foot wrong.

Agreed. I think from our end Etzebeth was immense with his workrate and intelligence of what to disrupt and when as well as general ballrunning. There is a good short clip of him swimming around the ruck a couple of times before his try, looking for the right point of attack and then running at the backline players for the mismatch. Similarly him knowing those ruck laws on when a ball is out based on binding was key to us getting that Kolbe try. PSDT was PSDT. He is back to his best. Just does not step. collosal in defense and making an impact. The HIA he had to do from the Penaud hit probably also gave him a second wind of energy at the end. In general our backline performed really well, playing the game plan that needed to be played. Good chips/kicks from Libbok (I think Reinach's were a bit weaker, but we scored off of them which was weird- I remember specifically saying how are we scoring off such terrible chips off one of his), and our centres were great on the chase and decision making. Kriel is in the form of his life. He is one of the faces I remember very clearly from that Brighton disappointment, so I'm happy to see his redemption arc. That decision to chip it through for Kolbe under that pressure was amazing. Then again our wings maintained a high workrate to get those tries and of course, the determination of Kolbe on that charge down.

On team line up for the next game, I don't think you change too much in the starters. Probably do switch out Vermuelen though and get Wiese in. Bench switches back to 6-2 where you drop out WLR and keep a scrumhalf with Pollard. I think the 5-3 split was really smart in retrospect. Post-game Rassie made the point that you don't get to scrum against the French often, there hadn't been many scrums in their games in the past and in this game it was likely not to happen much either (and it didn't they had a plan to call scrums on the mark to wear out their forwards) - so there was less need to have a bomb squad for scrums and more of a need for a balanced squad for open play (I missed out Kwagga, but he kept up his workrate and impact on the game).

Probable turning point in the game for me was France not scoring in the first 10 minutes of the second half with the man advantage. They got a penalty soon after but I think that was a big mental switch to the Springboks that they'd held them out.

 

[Jer1cho]

Also think Arendse doesn't get the credit he deserves. Guy is a frikkin cheat code at times. Has only played will in a green jersey. Him and Kolbe I would argue are the two most exciting wings in the top teams. They score tries not many others can.

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

There is no way Kolbe was behind or on the goal line when Ramos moves forward to strike the ball. The question was whether his shuffle or body movement counts as "moves in any direction." I don't think the intention of the laws is that shuffles or body moves count in this instance.

The minimum is to call for the TMO when a doubt exist, and the doubt must benefit to the defense, especially here when it's only to replay the transformation.We see this conditions very frequently on every match when scrums are not stable, and neither Ref nor TMO can definewhere is the fault.

 

[Zootalaws]

Ok, so do me a favour and make the argument that Michalaks pass against NZ wasnt forward...

I'll wait hahahahah

Hold your breath wile you're at it.

 

[Batsumy]

One sided obviously and looking forward for the SA version few of them are discussable but some of them are clear clear infrigment and there was not the excuse of the ref not been well placed

Summary: 18 missed penalties and few yellow and 1 red

How to rob a match from a team, pretty impressive,

 

[ncurd]

One sided obviously and looking forward for the SA version

Summary: 18 missed penalties and few yellow and 1 red

That's going too far stuff get missed that's part of rugby. Anyone who doesn't accept that needs to start watching a diffrent sport.

I'm happy to discuss howlers or when they don't use the tools available in key moments. But if you analyse any rugby match like this you become Erasmus.

 

[saulan]

One sided obviously and looking forward for the SA version few of them are discussable but some of them are clear clear infrigment and there was not the excuse of the ref not been well placed

Summary: 18 missed penalties and few yellow and 1 red

How to rob a match from a team, pretty impressive,

Edit: To be clear, this was one of our worst moments, I don't condone it - but I saw an opportunity to joke with it so I shall