[RWC2023 QF4] France vs South Africa (15/10/2023)

[Batsumy]

And I'm just reading that BOK will be refering the AFS/England, rewarded after such a good performance, if it is not a big finger to the face of the frenchies from World Rugby, I have no idea waht else it could be.

 

[ncurd]

And I'm just reading that BOK will be refering the AFS/England, rewarded after such a good performance, if it is not a big finger to the face of the frenchies from World Rugby, I have no idea waht else it could be.

The two best refs are English and Peyper is SA. Who do you pick?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Its just another thing, how often do you see a conversion charged down? So maybe its worth checking.

Like basic stuff why the TMO exists and we've used for years. BOK just decided he was going to allow anything last night.

Only example sticking in my mind is Peter Stringer running up and picking up the ball because the shot clock had run out! Can't remember who against, six nations game possibly?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Just read the laws….

"…..until the kicker moves in any direction to begin their approach to kick".

So in my world that is the run up, even if the initial movement is backwards or sideways. What it wouldn't include is any of the nervous ticks, general foot waggling etc. Maybe one way of looking at it is whether the action gives momentum to the run up.

Or something like that.

Who'd be a ref?

Yes. "Until the kicker moves in any direction".

Look at the step Ramos takes sideways before his run-up. That is when Kolbe started the chase. And that's within the rules.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Batsumy]

That's going too far stuff get missed that's part of rugby. Anyone who doesn't accept that needs to start watching a diffrent sport.

I'm happy to discuss howlers or when they don't use the tools available in key moments. But if you analyse any rugby match like this you become Erasmus.

It is not going too far, sorry you are not on the wrong end of it, it was a huge failure of BOK and it costs us dearly. As much as I agree that referees are making mistakes and it is rugby, the list of mistakes on this match starts to be rather long. If there was no doubt about the referee, we would not be looking at all that. France has accepted its defeat vs Ireland in 6 nations without making any drama, it was fair and square, beaten by a better team, sunday evening it was not fair and square and there is a massive sentiment of unfairness right now

The rather fun fact is that BOK is opthalmologist

The two best refs are English and Peyper is SA. Who do you pick?

There are no other referees ?

Best referees makes me smile, thats does not exist, Experienced ones yes. Why they do not choose Peyper or Barnes for NZ/Argentine and Gardner for SA/England ? There was other options but as I said, world rugby seems to show a finger to the french

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

We are giving you a lot of evidences, there have been repeated mistakes from BOK yesterday and the worst were not even checking video thoroughly even if there was clearly enough to have a good check (just etzebeth interception and the ball pushed outside of the try area are largely sufficient to be checked as happening so close to try line and crucial momentum)

It was not one mistake, it was several and it was officiating the ruck in a way that was automatically advantaging the saffies with their heavy but slow pack slowing the pace of a much faster french forward pack

With all due respect, but all people are sharing is their own interpretation on the 50/50 calls without any clear evidence. We still have not seen a proper angle on the Etzebeth play, nor a high resolution side-by-side video of Ramos' kick vs Kolbe's charge down.

We are all just going off of what we saw on the broadcast and the plays are too close to call with exact certainty unless we get proper replays that are lined up perfectly.

Why aren't we seeing this? Why is World Rugby refusing to release this footage which I am 99.999% sure they have? It is the RWC after all.

In the end, all we have is just people's interpretations of the plays. There's no evidence anywhere.

The sad thing is that we just witnessed what is arguably the best match in RWC history, and all people talk about for the last 36 hours is how calls were wrong, the refs are biased and how unfair it is that France lost.

We really can never find any joy as a rugby community even in the biggest display of rugby ever. No, as a community we are apparently just going to dissect and over-analyse this until the end of days. Very disappointing.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yeah, I think it's one of those where the interpretation and the written law just outright disagree with each other.
Written law is "moves towards the ball" interpretation is "moves" - though there'd be some debate even then - Kolbe seems to go when Ramos tilts his head, but I'd think first movement should be of the torso/legs - but as it's an interpretation, it'll vary by different ref.s

But that is O'Keefe's interpretation, IMO it's close enough to have been checked, but not one to lose any sleep over (unless you're Ramos)

Also, let's not forget that Kolbe and Ramos played together for years, so Kolbe is well aware of Ramos' kicking routine.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

So how do you explain Cruden's effort 10 years ago v Ireland which was retaken after he shuffled his feet?

That should have been a valid charge down. The problem isn't that that charge down was deemed illegal or that this one was deemed legal. The real problem is that the laws aren't clear on this which leads to these endless debates where the plays are just open to interpretation.

 

[Ospervat]

How was Kolbe behind his goal line when Ramos started his run up?

Ramos took 3.27 seconds from starting to move to striking the ball. Kolbe apparently can cover 25m in about 3.1 seconds from a standing start. He runs a 10.7 100m and has one of the fastest accelerations in world rugby. It was an inspired piece of play.
Kolbe has also said that he used to play together with Ramos at Toulouse 2017-21 and studied his kick style and technique. He knew he could do it.

 

[Ospervat]

The laws state a player can attempt a charge down as soon as the kicker makes any movement towards the ball, the exception being if the ball has fallen over and they are moving to correct it.



That's wrong, there is nothing in the law that states a player needs to be in control of the ball if he knocks it backwards. If Etzebeth stuck his hand out and the ball goes backwards, it's completely legal. It looked very much like it went forwards though, in which case then he does need to control the ball, which he clearly didn't.

If you check on the replay, the assist ref was in line with Etsabeth - he was best placed to make the call. Far better placed than any detractors. I honestly believe that if that ball had gone forward he would have flagged it to BOK.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

And I'm just reading that BOK will be refering the AFS/England, rewarded after such a good performance, if it is not a big finger to the face of the frenchies from World Rugby, I have no idea waht else it could be.

Urgh. I suppose it can't be Peyper or Barnes. Would've prefered Barnes. Best fit for the type of rugby we want to play. I wouldn't even mind him with playing England but I suppose that'd be unfair towards him.

 

[ncurd]

If you check on the replay, the assist ref was in line with Etsabeth - he was best placed to make the call. Far better placed than any detractors. I honestly believe that if that ball had gone forward he would have flagged it to BOK.

Would BOK of listened? He afterall told the TMO to sod off.

 

[Ospervat]

Would BOK of listened? He afterall told the TMO to sod off.

Yeah I think he would.

 

[Batsumy]

If you check on the replay, the assist ref was in line with Etsabeth - he was best placed to make the call. Far better placed than any detractors. I honestly believe that if that ball had gone forward he would have flagged it to BOK.

Being picky, he was not in line with etzebeth and I would say that he was enough not in line to not see a marginal knock on at least

 

[Atmavictu]

Almost 3k tickets on resale for Arg and NZ and 2k for the SA Eng game.

That referee has really killed the interest in this competition...

Prices are pretty nuts so no way neutral supporters will buy those tickets.

Big failure for the tournament...then again 1 hour queue to buy a bottle of water in the stadium is a good reason not to attend the game.....

Too bad, I had great expectations for this edition but the organization was lackluster, the draw idiotic and the refereeing has been abysmal. Yeah 2 great quarter finals but that's about it so far. It's gonna take 12 years before I can watch a World Cup game at a decent hour for Europe...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Being picky, he was not in line with etzebeth and I would say that he was enough not in line to not see a marginal knock on at least

So if no one was positioned well enough to see if it was a knock on, isn't it the right call to not penalise it?

 

[ncurd]

So if no one was positioned well enough to see if it was a knock on, isn't it the right call to not penalise it?

No, the right call is to check it like the TMO suggested.

Then if no angle is good enough go by onfield decision.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

No, the right call is to check it like the TMO suggested.

Then if no angle is good enough go by onfield decision.

That's my point though. If even the TMO doesn't have a clear angle to determine whether or not it was knocked forward, it should be ruled in favour of the player.

 

[Horacito]

And I'm just reading that BOK will be refering the AFS/England, rewarded after such a good performance, if it is not a big finger to the face of the frenchies from World Rugby, I have no idea waht else it could be.

What the actual F, now we going to launch a fatwa against Ben o Keefe

Seriously