[RWC2023 QF4] France vs South Africa (15/10/2023)

[ncurd]

There's also a possibility that the TMO looked at it from a different angle, and felt it wasn't necessary to intervene either because it was still not clear, or that he could see it went straight down/backwards.

My understanding is the TMO did try to intervene.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ref's do miss stuff during the game, usually the losing team picks them out because well they lost.
If France had won by one point Rassie would be doing a 12 hour youtube video on the decisions.

Honestly all these calls seem tight enough that as a natural i'm not that fussed about the reffing

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Marginal for me as well. I suppose the main gripe as far as I can see is the fact that it weren't referred which I think is fair like you say as well. If for no other reason than to curb such fallout.

On the flip side you see a lot of complaints, especially from ex players, against overuse of the TMO and how it slows the game and even then rarely actually makes decisions that are universally satisfying and that's the main reason why O'Keefe is rated - backs himself and blows up play only if he feels compelled, preferring to speed up the game.

I agree overuse of the TMO is bad but if Etzebeth did knock that on, that's a yellow card and penalty try. That is too big a consequence to not even check. It's not even a thing that can just be missed in the run of play like slight offside, obstruction, forward pass etc, it was completely against the run of play and very obvious what happened, just not very obvious whether it was legal or not.

 

[Glassjaw]

When I saw Dupont being as upset as he was during the game concerning the rucks, it reminded me of the 2011 final.

On the other hand, speaking of the Danty incident, you clearly see the slow motion replay being cut short like 1s before the impact ? I was at the stadium and watched the screen, everyone around me was like "WHAT, SERIOUSLY ?".

 

[Crybaby]

Small margins. Commitment wins matches at this level. Etsabeth was part of the difference. A goat

Disagree. Why matches ? In rugby, this kind of commitment wins watches.

Even if in this case, I suppose this more a question of not begin up to the level than commitment.

Comprenne qui pourra

 

[Zootalaws]

What Faf de Klerk is doing in that team, heaven knows

Winning, mostly.

 

[Jer1cho]

Disagree. Why matches ? In rugby, this kind of commitment wins watches.

Even if in this case, I suppose this more a question of not begin up to the level than commitment.

Comprenne qui pourra

 

[Gray_Mouser]

Disagree. Why matches ? In rugby, this kind of commitment wins watches.

Even if in this case, I suppose this more a question of not begin up to the level than commitment.

Comprenne qui pourra

J'ai rien compris.

 

[Yulia]

J'ai rien compris.

Moi non plus

 

[Where's my lost flair]

After some time, a few thought to consider :
- let's not focus on specific game moments (even though, I still think there should have been a video call)
- the main problem is definitely the way the rucks were reffed. 12 penalties in the whole game (6 on each side) is very very low. For me, it's not in line with the 2023 rule on rucks. The new rule is designed to limit any attempt to slow down rucks. No hands or knees on the ground, no attempt to take the ball if not a real chance to get it. That means no hands just to slow down. That's the way it is since the new rule. We've seen it and… surprise, that's the way the same ref made the call during France Uruguay! 31 (!) penalties (16 for us) with close attention on the rucks.
So to people who say he is coherent…
When you look at the stats, as I mentioned earlier, it's not possible to beat 43 defenders like France did (and SA missing 30% of tackles) without the opposite team slowing down the game to defend. The ONLY other game with such stats in the WC is… New Zealand Namibia!
I think Ben O'Keefe reffed the rucks like they were reffed in the last world cup. If it was the case, there would nothing to say but it's definitely not in line with the new rule on rucks. And it's definitely not coherent with what he did during France Uruguay.
In the end, this is what put us in great difficulty.
Finally, to people who say we complain/whine, whatever. Remember what Erasmus did after they lost to us last year (and other games too). He flooded the net with vids on how SA was cheated with long explanations, pointing arrows and stuff. The way he implied all week before the game that they were going to lose because of bad calls, that french players were simulators, etc… it was disgraceful, especially before the game. We fans, complains, but french staff has been very respectful of officials before and after.

 

[Glassjaw]

This game is up there with the 1995 semi and the 2011 final in the french frustration list.

 

[Jer1cho]

After some time, a few thought to consider :
- let's not focus on specific game moments (even though, I still think there should have been a video call)
- the main problem is definitely the way the rucks were reffed. 12 penalties in the whole game (6 on each side) is very very low. For me, it's not in line with the 2023 rule on rucks. The new rule is designed to limit any attempt to slow down rucks. No hands or knees on the ground, no attempt to take the ball if not a real chance to get it. That means no hands just to slow down. That's the way it is since the new rule. We've seen it and… surprise, that's the way the same ref made the call during France Uruguay! 31 (!) penalties (16 for us) with close attention on the rucks.
So to people who say he is coherent…
When you look at the stats, as I mentioned earlier, it's not possible to beat 43 defenders like France did (and SA missing 30% of tackles) without the opposite team slowing down the game to defend. The ONLY other game with such stats in the WC is… New Zealand Namibia!
I think Ben O'Keefe reffed the rucks like they were reffed in the last world cup. If it was the case, there would nothing to say but it's definitely not in line with the new rule on rucks. And it's definitely not coherent with what he did during France Uruguay.
In the end, this is what put us in great difficulty.
Finally, to people who say we complain/whine, whatever. Remember what Erasmus did after they lost to us last year (and other games too). He flooded the net with vids on how SA was cheated with long explanations, pointing arrows and stuff. The way he implied all week before the game that they were going to lose because of bad calls, that french players were simulators, etc… it was disgraceful, especially before the game. We fans, complains, but french staff has been very respectful of officials before and after.

No matter how badly you guys whine, you well never be on our level when it comes to ref moaning. Maybe we psychologically planted a seen in all the refs minds? Would be another list to add to the genius of Rassie Erasmus.

 

[Atmavictu]

This starts to feel like a football forum, everyone blaming the Ref

 

[Where's my lost flair]

No matter how badly you guys whine, you well never be on our level when it comes to ref moaning. Maybe we psychologically planted a seen in all the refs minds? Would be another list to add to the genius of Rassie Erasmus.

OK, that's cynical. That, at least, is sincere.

 

[BrokenWing]

Maybe we psychologically planted a seen in all the refs minds? Would be another list to add to the genius of Rassie Erasmus.

Still has a way to go to match Alex Ferguson.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

No matter how badly you guys whine, you well never be on our level when it comes to ref moaning. Maybe we psychologically planted a seen in all the refs minds? Would be another list to add to the genius of Rassie Erasmus.

I still wake up in cold sweat recalling the 2011 QF. At least not every week these days.

 

[Jer1cho]

Still has a way to go to match Alex Ferguson.

Or Richie MaCaw

 

[Jer1cho]

I still wake up in cold sweat recalling the 2011 QF. At least not every week these days.

There are two games I will never get over as a Saffa. 2011 Bryce Lawrence, and 2015 Japan loss. lol. It stings for the French I get it, but they are on the up, and this team of stars is going to peak at the next WC. They are the best ever team to never win it. I am so sorry we knocked out the French, but we had to try lol.

 

[Gray_Mouser]

There are two games I will never get over as a Saffa. 2011 Bryce Lawrence, and 2015 Japan loss. lol. It stings for the French I get it, but they are on the up, and this team of stars is going to peak at the next WC. They are the best ever team to never win it. I am so sorry we knocked out the French, but we had to try lol.

That's ok. It was a very good game, the kind it feels good winning. But that's the thing, it feels good because it could easily have gone the other way. So, let's just accept we can loose this kind of game. Or we can stick with games like France - Namibia.

At least, this French side is a joy to watch. It was not the case less than 10 years ago. In 2015 QF against NZ was 62-13. Although it's bound to be the ref's fault.

 

[Ospervat]

Here is a new POV of the Kolbe charge down.
Detractors will still say he started to run before Ramos moved however putting a stop watch on a different close up of Ramos taking the conversion showed he took 3.27 seconds to strike the ball - Kolbe covers the distance to the charge down in 3.12 seconds. Argument settled.