[RWC2023 QF3] England vs Fiji (15/10/2023)

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

No it wouldn't. It would only allow Sweeney et al the chance to paper over cracks instead of stripping back what's broken and rebuilding from the foundations.

Rebuilding so we could win the next World Cup instead of this one leave the politics aside friend.we're still in this World Cup

 

[ageingback23]

I've heard that Arundel is being dropped because he's fallen out with Farrell. Not the first time I've heard a story like this and rumours of the toxic atmosphere Farrell generates, with players fearful of challenging him. Apart from Hask a few years back, which was very funny . Agree totally with BPM and HamJam above. England haven't got what it takes to beat a top side at the moment, and actually we need to crash and burn so there half a chance of ousting the incumbent old man brigade who are running English rugby into the ground. Although I suspect the buggers will just hunker down and stay put!

 

[MarkyH]

Remember Cipriani vs SA away and he kicked through for May to score. The look of disgust on Farrells face when he did it says it all.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Remember Cipriani vs SA away and he kicked through for May to score. The look of disgust on Farrells face when he did it says it all.

cipriani discussed that subject in a recent interview and said Farrell had thought the kick was too long for may so unless cipriani is a liar it says nothing

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

cipriani discussed that subject in a recent interview and said Farrell had thought the kick was too long for may so unless cipriani is a liar it says nothing

Or farrells a liar

 

[ageingback23]

Rumours aside, Farrells presence with the team is toxic by its very nature. I'm not sure there is a single person on this forum, or anywhere else, who would put Farrell ahead of any other player in the team, and if we can see it, so can the squad. How must it feel to see lads who have busted a gut to get into the national squad, or be that lad, only to be brushed aside for the Crown Prince of English rugby, protected from up on high by the powers that be, knowing that others more deserving are missing out; but afraid to speak up lest you be for the chop! Farrell has done some good things in an England shirt, and maybe there was a time when he was on the pitch on merit. That time has passed. I don't care about how good he is at Saracens. Goode was excellent for them, but never performed in an England shirt, and so got dropped like a bad habit, the same could be said for many others. Why should Farrell be any different?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

At Sale's pre-match press conference Sanderson said, about Ford:

Considering Ford started 3/4 of the pool games that sounds like he's heard he's getting dropped

So if that's right we'll have gone:

Ford Manu Marchant

Ford Manu Marchant (Continuity!)

Farrell Lawrence Daly

Ford Farrell Manu

Farrell and ? ? Presumably Manu and either Marchant or Lawrence. So a changed midfield for the 4th consecutive game with six players used (2 of them in 2 different positions). Part of that's down to Farrell's suspension, but whose fault was that?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

It would also suggest Smith dropped completely (barring the madness that would be Ford 22 Smith 23), which seems incredibly harsh.

Will also be interesting to see what happens with Mitchell. He has absolutely 0 bottle and I don't trust him not to **** himself, but at the same time Care is definetly better in the 21 shirt, and Youngs is the only other option.

 

[ageingback23]

And yet again Farrells inclusion causes nothing but prob

So if that's right we'll have gone:

Ford Manu Marchant

Ford Manu Marchant (Continuity!)

Farrell Lawrence Daly

Ford Farrell Manu

Farrell and ? ? Presumably Manu and either Marchant or Lawrence. So a changed midfield for the 4th consecutive game with six players used (2 of them in 2 different positions). Part of that's down to Farrell's suspension, but whose fault was that?

and yet again Farrells inclusion causes nothing but problems. If he is to play 10, then it has to be Manu and Marchant in the centre. That seems common sense. But then who's on the bench. Does SB trust Smith enough to have him as cover for 10? I doubt it. So Ford is cover for 10. But then is there really space for smith as well? Every time he comes on there's more zip to englands performance, and he can cover 15, but this then means Lawrence, who I think is pretty decent, and could bring some real impact in place of Manu, misses out. It also means that Farrell probably just slides over to 12, Manu goes, Ford comes into 10, and we are all back in our shared nightmare! I'm starting to dread this weekend!!

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Rumours aside, Farrells presence with the team is toxic by its very nature. I'm not sure there is a single person on this forum, or anywhere else, who would put Farrell ahead of any other player in the team, and if we can see it, so can the squad. How must it feel to see lads who have busted a gut to get into the national squad, or be that lad, only to be brushed aside for the Crown Prince of English rugby, protected from up on high by the powers that be, knowing that others more deserving are missing out; but afraid to speak up lest you be for the chop! Farrell has done some good things in an England shirt, and maybe there was a time when he was on the pitch on merit. That time has passed. I don't care about how good he is at Saracens. Goode was excellent for them, but never performed in an England shirt, and so got dropped like a bad habit, the same could be said for many others. Why should Farrell be any different?

Farrell has been benched pretty recently(I can't remember which game)for Marcus smith to start.I think people have got Farrell as the root of many evils but seem to forget that England have still not performed when he was out of the team injured or suspended..He's back in the fold in the World Cup and England haven't lost a game(I'm not saying that is only down to him).I saw ford miss a number of tackles against Samoa and nothing has been said of that.maybe if he is starting with Farrell that may be one of the reasons.A rugby team is made up of many different aspects and players bring what others don't and vice Versa.Farrell obviously brings what the coaches perceive there teams need.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

cipriani discussed that subject in a recent interview and said Farrell had thought the kick was too long for may so unless cipriani is a liar it says nothing

It's pretty clear from the clips of the try that's what happened, people who attribute it to Farrell being annoyed that...we scored a try? are just reaching

 

[ageingback23]

Farrell has been benched pretty recently(I can't remember which game)for Marcus smith to start.I think people have got Farrell as the root of many evils but seem to forget that England have still not performed when he was out of the team injured or suspended..He's back in the fold in the World Cup and England haven't lost a game(I'm not saying that is only down to him).I saw ford miss a number of tackles against Samoa and nothing has been said of that.maybe if he is starting with Farrell that may be one of the reasons.A rugby team is made up of many different aspects and players bring what others don't and vice Versa.Farrell obviously brings what the coaches perceive there teams need.

Team sport yes. But one person can total poison and stifle a high performing team, and for me, that's Farrell. The Argentina game was a great example for me. Ford, unencumbered by Farrell, was able to step up, control the game, and find a way to win, and frankly he plays better without his old buddy hanging on his shoulder, and constant reminder that he's the chosen one. And yes Farrell was benched, for a nothing game as I recall. One of those token moments the coaches of England seem to pull out to pretend they're giving something else a go, before quickly reverting to type.

Yes England have other problems, but a fish rots from the head, it's time for the captain to go.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Team sport yes. But one person can total poison and stifle a high performing team, and for me, that's Farrell. The Argentina game was a great example for me. Ford, unencumbered by Farrell, was able to step up, control the game, and find a way to win, and frankly he plays better without his old buddy hanging on his shoulder, and constant reminder that he's the chosen one. And yes Farrell was benched, for a nothing game as I recall. One of those token moments the coaches of England seem to pull out to pretend they're giving something else a go, before quickly reverting to type.

Yes England have other problems, but a fish rots from the head, it's time for the captain to go.

A team who's in the quarter finals of a World Cup ain't exactly rotting

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And yet again Farrells inclusion causes nothing but prob

and yet again Farrells inclusion causes nothing but problems. If he is to play 10, then it has to be Manu and Marchant in the centre. That seems common sense. But then who's on the bench. Does SB trust Smith enough to have him as cover for 10? I doubt it. So Ford is cover for 10. But then is there really space for smith as well? Every time he comes on there's more zip to englands performance, and he can cover 15, but this then means Lawrence, who I think is pretty decent, and could bring some real impact in place of Manu, misses out. It also means that Farrell probably just slides over to 12, Manu goes, Ford comes into 10, and we are all back in our shared nightmare! I'm starting to dread this weekend!!

But Marchant was on the wing against Samoa…..so out of those that have started games in our midfield - Farrell's been at 10 & 12, Manu at 12 & 13, Marchant at 13 & 14, Daly at 13 and 11. Smith, selected as a 10 hasn't yet started in the midfield at all, only 15. And that's before you even think about where players have ended up after substitutions.

We either have the most skilful, adaptable players or it's a complete mess. Take your pick.

 

[ageingback23]

A team who's in the quarter finals of a World Cup ain't exactly rotting

If we had been in any other group we wouldn't be. It's only because we've had such an easy ride, and the Argentinians completely choked, while England managed to find a sudden surge of inspiration. We barely scrapped past Samoa, and were hardly convincing against Japan. Just being the quarters does not speak to serious hole English rugby finds itself in. In suspect, had we been in Scotlands group, we may well have finished one from bottom.

 

[Scotty]

So if that's right we'll have gone:

Ford Manu Marchant

Ford Manu Marchant (Continuity!)

Farrell Lawrence Daly

Ford Farrell Manu

Farrell and ? ? Presumably Manu and either Marchant or Lawrence. So a changed midfield for the 4th consecutive game with six players used (2 of them in 2 different positions). Part of that's down to Farrell's suspension, but whose fault was that?

Id personally got
Ford Manu Marchant
With Smith Lawrence on the bench, and play a territory game pinning them back, which vs Argentina we proved we can do...well Ford did.
Faz is great if we have a dominant pack with a strong imbedded gameplan, where ge isnt the play maker as such, he just does well time passes to players running smart lines. Thats what i see for Sarries. Rather than drawing players and attacking the line.

My main fear is that we will have to have Ford Faz Smith in the 23 and end up with Ford and Smith at 22 23 and Lawrence misses out.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Winning the World Cup would be a great way to start growth

Well, you've said elsewhere that our best chance is to "to do we're doing and hope one of the top sides has an off day". Doesn't seem you really have that much confidence...

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

If we had been in any other group we wouldn't be. It's only because we've had such an easy ride, and the Argentinians completely choked, while England managed to find a sudden surge of inspiration. We barely scrapped past Samoa, and were hardly convincing against Japan. Just being the quarters does not speak to serious hole English rugby finds itself in. In suspect, had we been in Scotlands group, we may well have finished one from bottom.

But we weren't in scotlands group so it's pretty irrelevant.we could have won the World Cup four years ago if it wasn't for South Africa beating us so we're pretty much in the same boat…there's always ifs and buts in a World Cup tournament

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Well, you've said elsewhere that our best chance is to "to do we're doing and hope one of the top sides has an off day". Doesn't seem you really have that much confidence...

That's pretty much the same for every team in the quarters not just us..only one team can win it

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

That's pretty much the same for every team in the quarters not just us..only one team can win it

Do you not think the winners of Ireland v New Zealand or France v South Africa are going to be the ones who make the least mistakes.The four best teams will be wanting there opposition to have an off day….I've never said England will win the World Cup.I've always said we have a chance