[RWC2023 Bronze Final] Argentina vs England (27/10/2023)

[Jimbo]

you were better than SA? Come on, come on, they played you

I mean that's a stretch on the day England probably were the better team and narrowly lost, in general SA are a superior team, were it not for some slightly controversal descisions it could have been 2 points the other way, calling BS on the played you.

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

Felix Jones is coming. He transformed our attack, and has a loooot of trade secrets to share.

So we'll see England rolling out the 7/1 or even 8/0 Dad's Army bench in the 6 Nations!! Mind you, it'll work for England because they only need. kickers at 9 to 15

 

[Horacito]

I mean that's a stretch on the day England probably were the better team and narrowly lost, in general SA are a superior team, were it not for some slightly controversal descisions it could have been 2 points the other way, calling BS on the played you.

Probably is the key word, you could say anything after that
you were better, probably, but also not? (sorry I like the almost glissando tone at the end of the question) It was a close game, sure
but also, not? really?
SA has wings for days, and England lacks the defense for that gameplan

If anything, Argentina today should be questioning Cheika's choice of attack, going all in the center and none outside, where most of the advantage took place

You did loose fair and square to SA tho, right?

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

I mean that's a stretch on the day England probably were the better team and narrowly lost, in general SA are a superior team, were it not for some slightly controversal descisions it could have been 2 points the other way, calling BS on the played you.

England had the ideal game-plan to ambush SA on the day, and should have won with a slightly better game management in the last 6 minutes. But Owen Farrell effectively cost you the game with his loud-mouth indiscipline for which the team was matched - and SA kicked the penalty.

 

[Rinkadink]

It was a close game, sure
but also, not? really?

Bit like today; England played you, right? Twice, in fact.

Argentina lost fair and square to the better team and it wasn't really close, correct?

 

[Horacito]

Bit like today; England played you, right? Twice, in fact.

Argentina lost fair and square to the better team and it wasn't really close, correct?

Correct, indeed

it was close, but also Sanchez could have scored that penalty and we could have better defense, but it really doesn't make much sense to wonder when you're the looser, you just lost

 

[Rinkadink]

Correct, indeed

it was close,

Ehh, but also not really?



Come on, come on.

 

[Horacito]

Ehh, but also not really?

fascism is kinda cool, but not really? (Succession quote)
we could've won, but not really?
England won, but not really?
Santi Carreras is a FH, but not really?
Michael Cheika could be the HC for ARG and Lebanon, but not really?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Correct, indeed

it was close, but also Sanchez could have scored that penalty and we could have better defense, but it really doesn't make much sense to wonder when you're the looser, you just lost

And you could also have had a try denied for a blatant forward pass...

Also in general I must say I thought the French were particularly classless today. Booing English players for no reason, booing Youngs off the pitch... Get a French team in England, that doesn't happen. If France were playing that's one thing but just doing that as a "neutral" only highlights the sort of **** England have to put up with that no other team does.

 

[Scotty]

Probably is the key word, you could say anything after that
you were better, probably, but also not? (sorry I like the almost glissando tone at the end of the question) It was a close game, sure
but also, not? really?
SA has wings for days, and England lacks the defense for that gameplan

If anything, Argentina today should be questioning Cheika's choice of attack, going all in the center and none outside, where most of the advantage took place

You did loose fair and square to SA tho, right?

I dont deny SA are a better team and would win most of the games if played 10 times, but on that day the wings got possed in the air, the lineout didnt fuction v well amd they came up agaonst a physical defence. England were better through that game in most respects. And the wings didnt do that much.

The dominance came in the scrum in the second half. They scored a good try and capitalised off scrum pens but across the game the best team(on the day) lost. Doesnt mean the win wasnt deserved.

 

[Horacito]

I dont deny SA are a better team and would win most of the games if played 10 times, but on that day the wings got possed in the air, the lineout didnt fuction v well amd they came up agaonst a physical defence. England were better through that game in most respects. And the wings didnt do that much.

The dominance came in the scrum in the second half. They scored a good try and capitalised off scrum pens but across the game the best team(on the day) lost. Doesnt mean the win wasnt deserved.

Of course, that day, for whatever reason, the better team won
England played as best as they could, it was beatiful, and they lost
SA fielded Pollard, who scored the 3 determinant points and somehow SA won by 3 points, and it almost seems like they have a 7th gear when it comes to the last 20 min of the game that almost no one has and they know how to play it the right way every time (except against Ireland)

Probably I am not expressing my admiration for England enough: I played all my life as a 3 and when I lost some weight as a 6, I love England, it is my dream job to get ****** in the breakdown and just toil and work and suffer, but when you don't win, be a man and just accept it. England won today, let's see what we can improve to get that win in the future, As for England, you had a very experienced team, some key players at their end of the rope, and you couldn't pull it off (the win against SA). Let's just celebrate our great players

-moroni
-lawes
-sanchez
-youngs
-cubelli
-Marler
-Creevy

to me, it is the end of a cycle for both of us, let's celebrate the fact that we both ended up better than we started and show some fair play and comraderie and all that

 

[Zac_ETNZ]

I really hate that about him

seriously, we lost because we just made more mistakes, that's it

some defense in the firts 15 min and we would've won this
we need to be more profi, that's all
this attitude doesn't take us anywhere

The penalty kick that was missed should have been a kick to the corner as you had England under the pump, You would have had an excellent opportunity to score a try to take the lead with only 7 minutes to go.

 

[Jimbo]

Of course, that day, for whatever reason, the better team won
England played as best as they could, it was beatiful, and they lost
SA fielded Pollard, who scored the 3 determinant points and somehow SA won by 3 points, and it almost seems like they have a 7th gear when it comes to the last 20 min of the game that almost no one has and they know how to play it the right way every time (except against Ireland)

Probably I am not expressing my admiration for England enough: I played all my life as a 3 and when I lost some weight as a 6, I love England, it is my dream job to get ****** in the breakdown and just toil and work and suffer, but when you don't win, be a man and just accept it. England won today, let's see what we can improve to get that win in the future, As for England, you had a very experienced team, some key players at their end of the rope, and you couldn't pull it off (the win against SA). Let's just celebrate our great players

-moroni
-lawes
-sanchez
-youngs
-cubelli
-Marler
-Creevy

to me, it is the end of a cycle for both of us, let's celebrate the fact that we both ended up better than we started and show some fair play and comraderie and all that

I don't disagree with this at all, to me you originally implied that SA we're toying with England and always had the win in the bag, I simply pointed out it was anything but and just how close it was, England lost by a single point not 3.

 

[Which Tyler]

Glad the rain has passed and I tuned in. England do not score that try without a second back who can actually pass the ball. I actually kind of like watching them when they play with in this style. Yes, there is still loads of kicking but there is at least some ambition and unpredictability. England playing like this should be targetting 2nd in the 6N, with 3rd as the absolute minimum.

Gardeners World isn't getting a look-in tonight.

Which of France & Ireland do you see England overtaking by rights, playing like this?

I'd say that 3rd should be the target, with 4th as minimum (and yes, that did hurt to type).
We can viably target a win against Scotland, though I wouldn't have us as favourites, we need a fair bit of luck to beat Ire or Fra. Wales are always capable of turning up against us, whilst both teams will be going through a heavy rebuild. I'd only be confident against Italy, and they could scare us IF they can somehow play to their potential.

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

Glad Cheika is leaving. His tenure will not be remembered.

 

[higgik]

Terrible tactics again by England. Poor coaches and I get the impression we will stay 5th in the 6 nations after another rubbish game.

Also what the hell is up with just picking proper players, we ended up with a 10 at 15, a 15 at 14, a 10 at 12 and a 13 at 11.

No wonder we have no shape later in a game and start leaking on our defence.

SB, making basic mistakes again.

Slightly harsh on Marchant as he does play on tge wing quite a lot for Quins

 

[BiggusLaddus]

Did Dan hit or shove Carreras in the face after he scored his charge down try? What did Carreras do to deserve that other than Dan's missed tackle?

Looked like he was reacting to something cynical in real time, but then on the replays I couldn't see anything worthy of a reaction.

If he was just getting revenge for his own missed tackle then he's a ******** and can count himself lucky not to have the try overturned.

 

[Geordie]

Can I just clarify for those thinking I'm on drugs..im not.

Do I think we've played fabulous rugby...no absolutely not. I want to see us playing fast attacking aggressive rugby.
However, rugby is based on foundations...the basics..and I believe under Jones we'd deteriorated alot in those aspects.
Discipline, defence, the set pieces, the breakdown.

With that in mind i believe SB has tried to fix all these, and gone with a basic plan for the WC.

We're miles from perfect or the finished article...but our defence is much improved.
Our breakdown was incredibly poor but is now another level to what it was.

Our Lineout a work in progress and the Scrum generally was good but we know we have a depth issue.

We have a mentality now that we're hard to beat. It's ugly but only SA have beaten us and that was in the late stages by one point.

Now...post WC...we MUST move on...we need to develop an attack.
Everyone can see that.
We must move away from kicking 90% of our ball.
Developing an attack will also help with the clear performance levels dropping at around 60- 70 mins as we won't spend all our time tackling through a game, hammering our fitness.

Theres alot of players leaving...Id say abut 10 in all. And thats good as we need to fix many of the positions.

Its a big job...but Rome wasn't built in a day...and the shoots are there that there's potentially very good side here.

All my humble opinion of course....

 

[Reiser99]

Can I just clarify for those thinking I'm on drugs..im not.

Do I think we've played fabulous rugby...no absolutely not. I want to see us playing fast attacking aggressive rugby.
However, rugby is based on foundations...the basics..and I believe under Jones we'd deteriorated alot in those aspects.
Discipline, defence, the set pieces, the breakdown.

With that in mind i believe SB has tried to fix all these, and gone with a basic plan for the WC.

We're miles from perfect or the finished article...but our defence is much improved.
Our breakdown was incredibly poor but is now another level to what it was.

Our Lineout a work in progress and the Scrum generally was good but we know we have a depth issue.

We have a mentality now that we're hard to beat. It's ugly but only SA have beaten us and that was in the late stages by one point.

Now...post WC...we MUST move on...we need to develop an attack.
Everyone can see that.
We must move away from kicking 90% of our ball.
Developing an attack will also help with the clear performance levels dropping at around 60- 70 mins as we won't spend all our time tackling through a game, hammering our fitness.

Theres of players leaving...Id say abut 10 in all. And thats good as we need to fix many of the positions.

Its a big job...but Rome wasn't built in a day...and the shoots are there that there's potentially very good side here.

All my humble opinion of course....

Yes we only lost to one team, but we also only played one team in the top 5. You can't dismiss that england had an easy draw.

 

[General Melchett]

The beauty of the Six nations is that there is no lopsided draw and World Rugby aren't involved. It should be a good barometer to see where England are at.