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[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

Really don't agree with Kolbe being better in the air than May.

I don't know if May is that much faster. Interesting fact, did you know Cheslin Kolbe is the cousin of Wayde v Niekerk? Pace is in the genes. I forgot that May couldnt go past Scott Barret lol (Granted Barret had an angle and slight head start). I reckon Kolbe woulda scored that.

and May was also dealing with a hamstring injury before and potentially will miss this game because of it.....
 
Is anyone from SA actually going to argue the toss? You guys seam to just be accepting the premise that England are the better team and countering 'well it'll be decided on the day'. No **** but I'd actually be trying to work out how SA would win and bigging them up.

Sure, why not.

SA has a better pack. England has a good pack but I believe ours has been and still is better both ITO the set pieces in general and ITO generating go forward and stopping opposition go forward. I think people are taking too much from the last week's games. NZ offered no resistance whatsoever. They stood back on defense and at the collision and allowed England to boss the game. I expect the reverse to be true on Saturday IE England were made to look awesome playing a very average and fickle 2019 vintage Aus and a beatable NZ had its worst game so far. England have not yet been tested so far this RWC.

I'd argue SA have had more tests, more time under Garces and we are learning to cope better though i think everyone would've prefered anotehr ref. We've not revealed a single thing on attack. I believe we have more room for improvement and a higher ceiling than England do. I expect that to come to the fore.

Over the last decade we've had England's number. Even at our worst we were more competitive against England than other maybe even lesser (generally speaking) teams. I'd say we *should've* won our last tie and that was in Twickers, not Japan but for a glaring non-call. We won at home last year 2/3 and the one loss was with a largely experimental side. Generally speaking for me its not a case of England beat NZ and NZ beat SA so England beats SA but more of a paper-rock-scissors type of setup. I just simply believe we have England's number plain and simple. Results between us relative to other teams seems to back this conception up. SA are undefeated in RWC finals. So basically I believe its better to be stepping back from one off results or at least take them in context especially as a RWC final is a different beast than a 'normal' test.
 
I don't know if May is that much faster. Interesting fact, did you know Cheslin Kolbe is the cousin of Wayde v Niekerk? Pace is in the genes. I forgot that May couldnt go past Scott Barret lol (Granted Barret had an angle and slight head start). I reckon Kolbe woulda scored that.
So would of May had he not been injured!
 
and May was also dealing with a hamstring injury before and potentially will miss this game because of it.....

Oh yeah forgot about that. In any case I rate him very highly, and am a fan.
 
SA fans are in a great position.

Know they have a good team hence in the finals but none of the pressure of being favourites.
Loss = Sad but it was expected oh well, least we can build on this.
Win = nefuhgfgsdhfjhdjsdfhjsdfhjksdghjg
 
What else is there to talk about?

On this Johnny May is probably the best wing in the world right now in the past 2 years he's score 17 try's (or 85 points) this is to Kolbe's 7 (35 points)....22 matches V 13 so ratio'd out 0.77 V 0.53 strike rate.

Sorry May makes the current world XV and the only Englishmen I would of said certainly did so pre-tournament.

By that reasoning Mapimpi is as good as the two combined o_O

Nah, I'd have Kolbe in ahead of both May and Mapimpi with his >1 strike rate.
 
By that reasoning Mapimpi is as good as the two combined o_O

Mapimpi and May are both blindside wingers, so yeah they should actually be compared to one another as they play on the same side of the field. But I think he was trying to get that May will be up against Kolbe (probably) and wanted to see who of the 2 would be better going up against each other...
 
Over the last decade we've had England's number..
Last 4 years reads 3-2 in Englands favour (with a 1 point game in our favour last year and a 3 point one in yours). I'll admit you had our number before that for a very long time and were essentially our bogey team. You decade of dominance however ended in 2016 and the three games lead up to that read draw, 1 point victory and 3 point victory. Think your statement is a little overstated.
 
People who watch just the highlights will say Kolbe is better
Real rugby aficionado who watch more than just what a player does (I.e. me) will say May.

Granted I May (hahaha :rolleyes:) be a bit biased given he players for England and my club, but honestly talk to others on this forum I tend to be pretty impartial.
 
Last 4 years reads 3-2 in Englands favour (with a 1 point game in our favour last year and a 3 point one in yours). I'll admit you had our number before that for a very long time and were essentially our bogey team. You decade of dominance however ended in 2016 and the three games lead up to that read draw, 1 point victory and 3 point victory. Think your statement is a little overstated.

Hence why I quantified that the one loss was in large part due to us fielding an experimental side in a dead rubber and the last loss really should be seen in context (as a win for us). Sooo I see it as closer to 4-1 in SA's favor everything considered in a time where my granny could challenge us. We are much better than we have been in this time frame.
 
Mapimpi and May are both blindside wingers, so yeah they should actually be compared to one another as they play on the same side of the field. But I think he was trying to get that May will be up against Kolbe (probably) and wanted to see who of the 2 would be better going up against each other...
Kolbe vs. May,
You were comparing the two to begin with

As for Mapimpi, lets just say his trys haven't exactly been against the same caliber opponents as May (7 in total v Nambia and Japan).
 
SA are unbeaten in RWC finals. Yes, but they have only played in two. It doesn't make them immune to losing in one.:rolleyes: And they are due a loss on the balance of probabilities.:cool:
 
May making 4.5 times as many clean breaks as Kolbe (45 vs 10) has blown my mind - seems like every time Kolbe gets the ball he makes yards!

I know May has played more games, but not 4.5 times as many
 
May making 4.5 times as many clean breaks as Kolbe (45 vs 10) has blown my mind - seems like every time Kolbe gets the ball he makes yards!

I know May has played more games, but not 4.5 times as many
I wonder in that case what actually classifies as a clean break. Kolbe always gets swarmed by defenders so maybe because he's having to beat one every few steps it doesn't get counted as a clean break.
 
May making 4.5 times as many clean breaks as Kolbe (45 vs 10) has blown my mind - seems like every time Kolbe gets the ball he makes yards!

I know May has played more games, but not 4.5 times as many
Mins played is the stat here 1392 V 368. May has played 3.8 times longer than Kolbe has in the past two years. Which really highlights Kolbe's meters gained stats.
 
Can't believe that it's being suggested by anyone that NZ failed to perform and that's why England won. (Brace for arrogance) the reason England won that semi was because we were bloody excellent. Simple as. Right from the Haka to the last whistle we had NZs number and had them beat in nearly every single position. It was arguably the greatest performance of any England team and finally demonstrated what that group of players is capable of when it all clicks. And Jones is right, they still haven't peaked. There were little errors that can be ironed out and chances not taken. These lads have proven to themselves and the world what they are capable of. Now they need to demonstrate that this is their new normal. That this is just how England play now. This final isn't just about winning the World Cup. It could be about the beginning of a great dynasty of English rugby. Much of this team are still young with years left on the clock with plenty of talent waiting in the wings to carry on the legacy. But we've all seen far too many English false dawns, only time will now tell if our day has finally come.

Assuming we do carry this form into the final SA would need a huge step up to compete. Certainly Erasmus has dragged them from the mire but they are a long way off a finished article.

but this is a final. Margins will be small, pressure white hot, and it could all come down to the bounce of a ball, an silly error, or a dreaded drop goal. Whatever I expect it to be something special.
 
Can I just say thanks to you guys for beating Wales on Sunday. I'd probably be net negative rep by now and several bans would of occurred if it were the other way around.
 

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