RWC Semi Final: France - Wales (15-08-2011, 21:00)

[Gavin]

Here is the video for everyone. He landed on the upper part of his back and the biggest thing for my is Warburton did not drive him into the ground

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The only way a player can hit the ground head first, is if their head is lower than any other part of their body, and the only way that can happen is if they have been rotated into that position.

Personally, I do not understand why anyone does not think this is a red card. The Spear Tackle memorandum has been in force for over two years. How stupid can a player be to put himself at risk of a red card by grabbing the opponent below the hips and lifting him up.

Only ONE PERSON was responsible for ruining the game, Warburton

He lifted the French player up (not Rolland)
He turned the French player over (not Rolland)
He dropped the French player on his head (not Rolland)

Warburton should be buying the drinks for his team-mates for the next four years as penance for his act of sheer stupidity.

Excuse me but have you read what I have posted about Warburton.

Before you lecture me, I'd have a quick look about what I said about the Warburton tackle. Not disagreeing with the decision at all. But what I do disagree with is your third point. Dropped him on his head ... sorry its open to interpretation but he did not drop him on his head.

To have a rant at me when I have not disagreed with the decision Rolland has made but rather if that is the call then all tackles similar should be red shows that you have decided to have a little dig at that because of the flag that is flying on my profile. Shambles.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Look, everyone can say what they want about the tackle, but the right decision was made, Clerc was lifted and Warburton was in control and he let Clerc land on his head...

For a captain to do something like that is totally unacceptable! He was supposed to lead by example, and that tackle was a terrible example... oh well guess that's why there's a saying, if you want to walk with the big dogs, you shouldn't **** like a puppy.

 

[cityrunner]

About the red card. It was a wrong call in my opinion. Warburton lifted Clerc largely because of the speed he was going at, to slow him down. The law states that if this happens you must drive the player into the ground. He attempted this, but lost control of him. Therefore this is careless, not malicious. That makes it a yellow card offence in my opinion, not red. It was not the best idea from Warburton but it was not a red. This was a game changer.

The sad thing is we had the chances to win this. Hook was diabolical and don't expect to see him wearing the Wales No.10 shirt any time soon. Jones was an improvement but not great. The missed kicks and drop-goals cost us dear also. We really missed Priestland today.

Rolland didn't have a bad game at ref. But would the red card have gone our way if it was someone else. I'm not saying Rolland was intentionally biased, but he probably would favour France in the 50-50 calls. Players can represent a country in which there grandparents were born, why are refs aloud to ref a match in which a parent of their's comes from?

Most of the referees in the referees forum agree that it was a RC offense. The IRB August memo requires very strict refereeing of lifting tackles.

 

[timrees]

I don't care if they lose to Australia or New Zealand but I will not accept France losing to Ireland, Wales or England. So much hype and arrogance by the supporters with nothing to back it up. Plus most of them are fair weather rugby fans, only give a **** when you win a game, you're not true fans of rugby.

Yeah Wales are beat but will get a chance to fix it in the 6 nations and build for the next RWC. Your a c**k and that can't be fixed.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Most of the referees in the referees forum agree that it was a RC offense. The IRB August memo requires very strict refereeing of lifting tackles.

And therefore the 'Referees Forum' is the absolute word then is it?

 

[King_D'Arcy]

I don't care if they lose to Australia or New Zealand but I will not accept France losing to Ireland, Wales or England. So much hype and arrogance by the supporters with nothing to back it up. Plus most of them are fair weather rugby fans, only give a **** when you win a game, you're not true fans of rugby.

I'm sorry mate, but France just don't have it. Name 1 French player who would make the Irish, English or Welsh team? There's none! Good luck in the 3rd place play off

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sums it up for me. Does look like he lost control of Clerc rather than intentionally dropping him.

The problem with that, though, is then people could do it on purpose and then make it look like/pretend that it was accidental

If you're going to ping them for it you have to ping all instances regardless of intent

 

[Rhyer]

I'm sorry mate, but France just don't have it. Name 1 French player who would make the Irish, English or Welsh team? There's none! Good luck in the 3rd place play off

The Irish have some great players as do the Scottish, but Wales and England are so ordinary.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The problem with that, though, is then people could do it on purpose and then make it look like/pretend that it was accidental

If you're going to ping them for it you have to ping all instances regardless of intent

Agreed.

 

[dangandan]

Feel bad for Wales but the only person they can blame is their captain. Rolland played by the rule book and made the correct decision. If he didn't give the red and Wales had won people would still be calling for his head that he didn't get it right. When its 15v15 Wales are definitely the stronger team so it's a pity Warburton had to do that. I can't see France winning the final... I will be satisfied if the match has a margin less than a cricket score.

 

[elgringoborracho]

Suck my dick you ****ing joker.

how happy I am not to be in your place

 

[smartcooky]

Sums it up for me. Does look like he lost control of Clerc rather than intentionally dropping him.

Unfortunately, intent has nothing to do with it. The Law is an "absolute" in this case

[TEXTAREA]In 2007, the IRB Council approved a Laws Designated Members Ruling which essentially made it clear that tackles involving a player being lifted off the ground and tipped horizontally and were then either forced or dropped to the ground are illegal and constitute dangerous play.

At a subsequent IRB High Performance Referee Seminar at Lensbury referees were advised that for these types of tackles they were to start at red card as a sanction and work backwards.

Unfortunately these types of tackles are still being made and the purpose of this memorandum is to emphasize that they must be dealt with severely by referees and all those involved in the off-field disciplinary process.[/TEXTAREA]

[textarea]To summarise, the possible scenarios when a tackler horizontally lifts a player off the ground:

► The player is lifted and then forced or “speared†into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

► The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

► For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles, it may be considered a penalty or yellow card is sufficient.

Referees and Citing Commissioners should not make their decisions based on what they consider was the intention of the offending player. Their decision should be based on an objective assessment (as per Law 10.4 (e)) of the circumstances of the tackle.[/textarea]

I have attached the full copy of the Spear Tackle Memorandum that I received from the iRB in 2009

View attachment Spear Tackle Memorandum.pdf

 

[Isurus]

People have brought up that Warburton had "no malicious intent" and I agree with that 100%. However everyone should recognise that "malicious intent" is not in the rules - either written or implied.

I must admit though that I am struggling with whether this should have been a red card or not.

I guess by the letter of the law the referee can legitimately pull the red card and not be wrong, but he had the power of discretion in this case and with his experience he must recognise that he is destroying a World Cup semi-final, the biggest match of these guys' careers. The slow motion does make it look bad but then again slow motion replays of even the most inocuous collisions always look far worse than they do at normal speed. This is a man's game where physical brutality is the whole point - it's not tiddly-winks (as a great man once said).

I think the major factor for me though is this - what if the tackled player broke his neck? What value do we put on keeping players out of wheel chairs? And don't just think about the professional athletes, think about the amateurs and the kids.

So, for me, on balance the red card is right. Players need to know where the line is and what is at stake if they cross it. If a ruined World Cup semi-final is the price paid to make our game that much safer then so be it.

 

[timrees]

The Irish have some great players as do the Scottish, but Wales and England are so ordinary.

You must be very aroused by all this because your turning into an even bigger c**k by the minute.

 

[AKA]

The only way a player can hit the ground head first, is if their head is lower than any other part of their body, and the only way that can happen is if they have been rotated into that position.

Personally, I do not understand why anyone does not think this is a red card. The Spear Tackle memorandum has been in force for over two years. How stupid can a player be to put himself at risk of a red card by grabbing the opponent below the hips and lifting him up.

Only ONE PERSON was responsible for ruining the game, Warburton

He lifted the French player up (not Rolland)
He turned the French player over (not Rolland)
He dropped the French player on his head (not Rolland)

Warburton should be buying the drinks for his team-mates for the next four years as penance for his a
ct of sheer stupidity.

You are one serious joke! Thinking you are so clever with your rule knowlegde. How about the ref using some common sense? Anybody who knows anything about rubgy thinks it was yellow the most! There was no malice in the tackle what soever.

In the studio, Peinaar and Dallaglio were outraged of the decision and so were every rugby loving fans out there because it was no way a red card!! You are just being a pedantic prick and frankly I don't care what you think because you are wrong!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Gentlemen and ladies ... please be careful with your language towards other members.

Thank You.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Wowza, it's clear you're still very emotional about the whole thing. Wait four years, watch the video again when your thoughts aren't so clouded by all those emotions, and you'll see that "anybody who knows anything about rubgy (sic)" will understand why it's a red card.

By the way, "Thinking you are so clever with your rule knowlegde." is sig worthy. Those darn referees, I hate it when they know the rules, makes the game so... legal! Yuck!

 

[Rhyer]

Gentlemen and ladies ... please be careful with your language towards other members.

Thank You.

What is with you and Old Spice by the way?

 

[coonor]

You are one serious joke! Thinking you are so clever with your rule knowlegde. How about the ref using some common sense? Anybody who knows anything about rubgy thinks it was yellow the most! There was no malice in the tackle what soever.

In the studio, Peinaar and Dallaglio were outraged of the decision and so were every rugby loving fans out there because it was no way a red card!! You are just being a pedantic prick and frankly I don't care what you think because you are wrong!

That has no influence what so ever. The IRB regulations and Spear tackle memorandum clearly states that the tackler intentions are not to influence the decision. Rolland reffed in accordance by the regulations and laws set by the IRB. What more can he do? Peinaar and Dallagio's opinions should not sway people as the IRB are clear with their instructions.