RWC: Argentina - England (10-09-2011, 20:30)

[Peat]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the previous performances... although yes, a lot of them fell in England's dire patch where it wasn't that difficult to stand out. We have a better team now - although to be fair, Croft missed a lot of this year. He hasn't really had much of a chance with new improved England. He has not been good this summer. He was good last summer though.

If you'd said Juan Smith, I'd have said he's a better player. Likewise Ferris. However, Elsom has not been that good for the last two years, I think Kainio is very similar to Croft, O'Brien needs to round his game out at international level and Dusatoir has struck me as slightly hot and cold. Won't comment on Lobbe as I haven't really seen him play in ages. There's a number of very good 6s around, but world class ones? Probably just Smith (thanks to Ferris' glass knee). And I wouldn't say Croft was an ineffective openside. I'd say he's a bloody good one, unless you measure opensides solely by ball stolen.

Anyway, agree to disagree if you like, just giving a bit more of the logic behind my thinking. We shall see as the World Cup possesses.

 

[Logorrhea]

Nahhh all thats fair enough. I'm open to correction.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think he got injured, lost form. Remember him seeing him play at Bristol-Northampton wasen't very good then altough I was excited to him see him back then . Interesting queston though I for one would like to know. He's doing some anti-gay bullying in America now I think.

Aye - He got injured, lost a bit of form, and then just generally got old

When he was at Sale you could see he was still a good player, he just didn't have the pace (and he had some serious toe back in his day)

Retired at the end of last season and focuses on charity work now

 

[JW.]

Was a bit of a forced retirement wasen't it something with his contract?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He was released by Sale, and decided not to take up a new contract elsewhere (apparently had offers from a couple of places in France, and Wasps, I believe)

 

[JW.]

Ah oke, just wanted to retire then. Shame that Sale didn't keep him, they could've used him either as a player or experienced head?

One hell of a player back then, and a RWC winner .

 

[McTallshort]

Yeah he was, top draw winger back in the day and a real important part of that great team we once had, remember him tearing through the middle of the Aussies to win the game think it went wrong when he went to France to be honest.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think he said that he would've played another year if Sale had kept him on, but decided to retire rather than start anew
I was gutted when we dropped him, was playing well in the latter half of the season, and he was announced as dropped like a day after Buckley signed, so I was feeling fragile anyway :lol:




Aaannnnyyyywwwaaaayyyy back on topic
Moody has said he's on track to be 100% for this match

 

[Sixesandsevens]

I think your being way too critical of Croft to be honest, he hasnt hit his form since his injury but on top form he is definately up there.

 

[eot345]

I'm not ignoring the previous bits of your post, I just saw all those games you mentioned and dont remember Croft ever putting in a performance that stood out. For a loose forward thats pretty difficult thing to do.

You are also praising Croft for his performances through the days when England were playing some of the worst rugby ever seen on the planet. A lot of which changed when the new players were introduced. I seem to remember Flood (before he broke), Aston, Foden (in particular), Youngs, Palmer, Lawes, Cole, Hartley etc all taking a fair bit of the credit for the improved performances. I rarely heard about Crofts huge impact on anything but another sterile performance against Scotland. Again, I think hes a fine player, just seriously overhyped.


I think we are pretty much agreed that Croft is an undersized and underpowered second row, hes an oversized and ineffective openside, and hes not an overly effective 6. But you dissagree with me and tell me hes as good as any other 6 in the world at the moment?

Not trying to get into a ding dong with you about it. I'll happily agree to dissagree ................... but I dissagree.

Croft is a fantastic player his line out ability is crucial to the england set piece. And just because he doesn't run over people like Sean O'Brien doesn't mean he's not very good have. Croft secures huge amounts of our ball time and time again he's first to the ruck. Croft is almost certainly the quickest england forward (read his RFU profile). Croft is not an under powered second row he plays nothing like a second row he is a very good 6 who is both physical and very very athletic, his ball carrying is both smart and dynamic ... grrrr

 

[Phlegm & Poise]

Not sure this game will be too pretty. Argentina have always been somewhere between pretty terrible and ramshackle in between World Cups but when they get their squad together they have enough beef to impose themselves on most sides. They're my outsiders bet to reach the semis, they've just got to work out a way to face the French in the quarters and they are practically there.

That video impresses upon me that although England could always rely on Wilko's boot to dig them out of tight situations, at the time they also had some serious performers with ball in hand. Some of the tries were unbelievably good - god I miss Greenwood.

 

[Surefire]

I really would have liked to see Argentina play another warm up game. They have great players, and I am sure they are familiar with each other, but lacking the game time together is a handicap. England did not look like world beaters in their warm up games, but they did not look horrible. I also thought fans, talking to you Dallaglio, are harsh in their criticism. (actually what he said was not that bad, but only on an anonymous forum could I challenge that guy) England will do what they always do well with the pack, and they have some exciting backs to compliment. For those reasons I see England pulling away in this one.

 

[Melhor Time]

Gonzalo Tiesi is fit and virtually guaranteed of starting at 13.

Today Argentina were training as follows:

15 Martín Rodríguez
14 Gonzalo Camacho
13 Gonzalo Tiesi
12 Santiago Fernández
11 Horacio Agulla
10 Felipe Contepomi
9 Nicolas Vergallo
8 Juan Fernández Lobbe
7 Juan Leguizamón
6 Julio Farias
5 Patricio Albacete
4 Manuel Carizza
3 Juan Figallo
2 Mario Ledesma
1 Rodrigo Roncero

In other words, the same team that faced Wales with Tiesi in for Marcelo Bosch. If Los Pumas are able to play like they did in the first 30 minutes against Wales then they´ll win.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

England will win this, Argentina ran out of puff against Wales and I have a feeling they will do the same here.

 

[psychic duck]

Gonzalo Tiesi is fit and virtually guaranteed of starting at 13.

15 Martín Rodríguez
14 Gonzalo Camacho
13 Gonzalo Tiesi
12 Santiago Fernández
11 Horacio Agulla
10 Felipe Contepomi
9 Nicolas Vergallo
8 Juan Fernández Lobbe
7 Juan Leguizamón
6 Julio Farias
5 Patricio Albacete
4 Manuel Carizza
3 Juan Figallo
2 Mario Ledesma
1 Rodrigo Roncero

In other words, the same team that faced Wales with Tiesi in for Marcelo Bosch. If Los Pumas are able to play like they did in the first 30 minutes against Wales then they´ll win.

Phelan is an idiot, Sánchez should be 10 and Contepomi 12, or at least let Rodríguez kick, it's obvious, Contepomi's goal kicking has been abysmal of late and if the Pumas have any chance of getting to the quarter finals they need every point they can get and Contepomi is costing about 9-15 points a match

I agree with Cymro, England should win comfortably if they have more than a 7-10 point cushion after 50 minutes, then Argentina will fade

if it stays a tight match then Argentina will come into it more as the match progresses but it won't be tight if Contepomi's poor goal kicking continues

 

[Saint]

Also expecting Argentina to tire, but we can't be complacent and let them play otherwise we'll know about it, can Contepomi keep up his poor goal kicking form please?

 

[calculon]

Phelan is an idiot, Sánchez should be 10 and Contepomi 12, or at least let Rodríguez kick, it's obvious

I'd agree except you're saying it, and you simply cannot be taken seriously, in much the same way the T.R.oll.F'ers can't be taken seriously..

 

[Seaton]

I'd agree except you're saying it, and you simply cannot be taken seriously, in much the same way the T.R.oll.F'ers can't be taken seriously..

Why not?

 

[duncanb]

I think Argentina will raise their game against us however we still should have enough in tank to win by 8-10 my main concern is BL as ref IMHO he seems to always struggle with FR's and these are 2 of the best around so calls could become a lottery.
P.S. Dowson should have gone to RWC probably best ball handling back row we have can play across back row better option than Tub of Lard Easter any day of the week.

 

[calculon]

Why not?

They lack in objectivity, and that's being polite.