RWC: Argentina - England (10-09-2011, 20:30)

[Sixesandsevens]

Haskell is our form back row at the moment, its just unfortunate that he isnt as good a lineout option as Croft, so Croft (even though his form is not up near his best) must start ahead of him really.

 

[Teh Mite]

On current form, Croft shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday squad. He was farcically bad in Dublin.

 

[Sixesandsevens]

On current form, Croft shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday squad. He was farcically bad in Dublin.

I agree, but he probably will. He is pretty valuable in the lineout always I guess....even in Dublin I felt our lineout did very well with him in.

 

[eot345]

The front row. Lobbe or Leguizamon, Felipe contipomi I'd still have him ahead of Flood and Fernandez ahead of Hape. To name but a few.

You would pick Roncero, Ledesma and Figallo over Dan Cole, Steve thompson, and andrew sheridan when they were throughly out scrummaged at home by a depleted scotland pack less then 12 months ago? that seems wiered to me, yer i agree Lobbe over easter , Hape shouldnt count since there are players in the Italy A team that I'd pick over Hape (Either of the Pratichetti brothers for example)

 

[j-dawg]

You would pick Roncero, Ledesma and Figallo over Dan Cole, Steve thompson, and andrew sheridan when they were throughly out scrummaged at home by a depleted scotland pack less then 12 months ago? that seems wiered to me, yer i agree Lobbe over easter , Hape shouldnt count since there are players in the Italy A team that I'd pick over Hape (Either of the Pratichetti brothers for example)

Steve Thompson didn't start and Andrew Sheridan wasn't even there. Learn the facts.

 

[Peat]

Deacon's considered a lineout guy though, isn't he?

I get the impression that Lawes/Shaw are interchangeable (in Johnson's eyes) and Deacon/Palmer are

Deacon is like a less good Simon Shaw.

Deacon's improved a fair bet, but I would still go quite some way to avoid starting him in an international. Great club player, but doesn't make the step up well.

In my opinion, the amount of fast ball England seem to get drops off radically whenever we don't play both Lawes and Palmer. So I'd pick those two every day all day.

 

[HowieLO6]

My understanding is Deacon and Shaw meat heads (enforcer types) but both can function in the line well enough and Palmer and Lawes are the Athletic guys with the high tackle counts. Personally and I know I will get grief for this but I think Lawes is behind Palmer and I think he should start with Deacon.

With Croft offering a legitimate lineout option, i'm inclined to say that Johnson will simply go with the top two performers at any given moment. Palmer, as far as i'm concerned, is a given. His move to France has really added to his game. Shaw is an excellent solution with 20 minutes left, which leaves Lawes and Deacon fighting it out. Personally, I find Deacon pedestrian. Only has, I believe, 2kg on Lawes but not a match as far as otehr aspects, such as the breakdown, go. Not even considering Lawes' versatility, i'd pick Courtney 9 times out of 10.

 

[j-dawg]

Dissapointed with Lawes form recently

 

[HowieLO6]

Dissapointed with Lawes form recently

It wasn't quite at the level he showed at points during the 6N but, bearing in mind he was shifted to 7 pretty early on, I think he had a sound game.

The only way he'll recapture his form is being picked and given the opportunity. We know what the consistent Deacon is capable of, but he simply doesnt offer enough in my mind.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

It literally has to be 4) Palmer 5) Lawes 18) Shaw. Palmer gets through so much work! Didn't even start the game and got through the most tackles by far, 17, and missing none! Really good to see he can do a job in the backrow

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Palmer wasn't in the backrow, when he came on Lawes moved to 6 and Croft moved to 7

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Palmer wasn't in the backrow, when he came on Lawes moved to 6 and Croft moved to 7

opps, my bad, of course he did.

 

[HowieLO6]

Palmer wasn't in the backrow, when he came on Lawes moved to 6 and Croft moved to 7

When Palmer came on, my heart skipped a beat; I figured that Johnson had been working tirelessly to mould Palmer into a manageable 8th man, that all our woes would be solved. Until my better half kindly pointed out that she'd always preferred Lawes at 6 than in the second row. Quite why we have a chronic dearth of talent at 8 is still beyond my understanding.

Ultimately, while Deacon is in solid form, we'll need some real skill in and around the breakdown, something that Lawes can certainly offer.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Meh - Crane, Narraway, Fearns, Guest, Morgan (he's English, not Welsh ) - We've got a few 8s knocking around
Don't think Haskell is too bad at 8 though, better than Easter anyroads

 

[HowieLO6]

Meh - Crane, Narraway, Fearns, Guest, Morgan (he's English, not Welsh ) - We've got a few 8s knocking around
Don't think Haskell is too bad at 8 though, better than Easter anyroads

All good club level eighth men - big fan of Guest, know next to nothing of Morgan - but where's the real pedigree, where's the number 8 that other nations covet?

I'm not expecting a Brooke, or even a Lawrence, but what about a Harinordiquy? We've nothing on that level. While Haskell can carry with some purpose, all too often i'm seeing him loitering out in the centres, not doing the dirty work. Tucks the ball under his arm all to quickly too, where's the verve that has defences guessing??

 

[eot345]

Steve Thompson didn't start and Andrew Sheridan wasn't even there. Learn the facts.

What you reply makes no sense was talking about argentina's poor play against Scotland in last years SI's this has nothing to do with were thompson Or sheridan were or were not or where they did or did not play, read before you contradict

 

[TRF_Olyy]

All good club level eighth men - big fan of Guest, know next to nothing of Morgan - but where's the real pedigree, where's the number 8 that other nations covet?

I'm not expecting a Brooke, or even a Lawrence, but what about a Harinordiquy? We've nothing on that level. While Haskell can carry with some purpose, all too often i'm seeing him loitering out in the centres, not doing the dirty work. Tucks the ball under his arm all to quickly too, where's the verve that has defences guessing??

Ah, you never know what'll happen down the line - Fearns is still young (just turned 22) and looked very good for Sale - hopefully Bath keep him at 8 (he filled in at 7 for Sale and then got his Saxons caps at 7) as it's his best position

 

[gingergenius]

wait for Jackson Wray

*blind Saracens bias*

hasn't played much in the prem yet, hopefully we'll see more of him this season and can tell whether he's a future England prospect or not.

 

[j-dawg]

What you reply makes no sense was talking about argentina's poor play against Scotland in last years SI's this has nothing to do with were thompson Or sheridan were or were not or where they did or did not play, read before you contradict

I thought you were referring to England playing against Scotland not Argentina. I am truely sorry. I will take my life in the traditional samauri way for this dishonour.

 

[Peat]

wait for Jackson Wray

*blind Saracens bias*

hasn't played much in the prem yet, hopefully we'll see more of him this season and can tell whether he's a future England prospect or not.

I could have sworn he played most of his age grade stuff as a flanker. Maybe I'm going senile. Good prospect though. Alex Gray is another good prospect, so's Jamie Gibson possibly... both at LI though, so only one will be developed as a long term eight. Billy Vunipola at Wasps is a big boy. There'll probably be something in the future.

However, at the moment, most English clubs play with a foreigner at 8. That's why we have no 8s. Haskell's not really an 8, plays most of his rugby on the flank. He's also mostly out waiting in the centres for stick it up your jumper crash ball because our coaches like crash ball and he's our best power carrier. Given opportunity, Haskell has quite a bit of flair. Stats also show that he's not really that lazy these days.