RWC: Argentina - England (10-09-2011, 20:30)

[calculon]

Weather in Dunedin: Rain and 10deg high
Weather in London: Rain and 13deg
Weather in Buenos Aires: Sunshine and 20deg


I think England have the climate advantage

Much of a muchness - Argentina would have been preparing in Patagonian no? with the same miserable weather as that of Northern Europe in March or April, or Dunedin now. **** weather will suit England more as they're normally good with attrition and have the heavier pack. If Argentina have any trick up their sleeve, it would be nullified by **** weather.

 

[Peat]

It seems as good a place as any to put this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2USK9DolxU&feature=player_embedded

Back when we were great...

 

[JW.]

Awesome video btw. Liking the music with it.

 

[McTallshort]

On current form, Croft shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday squad. He was farcically bad in Dublin.

What! oh please behave

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Christ, we had some bloody good players then

Greenwood, Robinson, Lewsey, Dawson, the Holy Trinity, Johnno, Cohen, Jason Leonard

Cracking

 

[Logorrhea]

On current form, Croft shouldn't be anywhere near the matchday squad. He was farcically bad in Dublin.

Agreed. Croft is the most overhyped pile of averageness since Keith Earls.

Also think that the Brand is your best 8 at the moment. Weakens the scrum but offers you a carrier, go foward ball and an agressive tackler.

A much better 6 overall, but in this case your most effective 8.

 

[Peat]

Agreed. Croft is the most overhyped pile of averageness since Keith Earls.

So very good, often the best player in the team, yet jumped on and pilloried the moment he turns in a couple of below average performances?

And yeah. That video is awesome. But slightly sad. I'm not sure I'll see an England team that good again in a hurry.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Crofts perfomance has been way way exaggerated - he wasn't sh*t, he just wasn't as good as normal
He had the equivalent of a quiet game (apart from his few scuffles) but then couple that with him playing at 7 instead of 6 and it was a sub-par performance

Hardly the worst performance a player has ever put in though

 

[eot345]

O come on croft had a C- performance and some ppl think he should be dropped on form croft Is the best 6 in England he's v good at the line out makes his takles and is rapid.

 

[eot345]

I thought you were referring to England playing against Scotland not Argentina. I am truely sorry. I will take my life in the traditional samauri way for this dishonour.

Nice rational response to the situation :d

 

[JW.]

You can't drop Croft if he does find his form (not saying he was bad but he wasent as good as he can be) he's a worldclass 6. And instrumental in our lineout, restart work.

 

[Logorrhea]

So very good, often the best player in the team, yet jumped on and pilloried the moment he turns in a couple of below average performances?

When exactly has Croft been the best player in any team? Seriously? As a number 6 Ive yet to see him ever impose himself on an opposition pack.

he's a worldclass 6. And instrumental in our lineout, restart work.

I think hes a pretty good player, so I'm not trying to slate him as a professional, but hes not as good as Elsom, Kaino, Dusatoir, Lobbe or O'Brien (in my opinion). Hes certainly not world class by world standards.

Hence the reference to being overhyped. Not trying to slate the player, just reign in unrealistic expectations.

Same applies to Keith Earls, or Luke Fitzgerald for the more precious members.

 

[McTallshort]

On current form he isnt as good as Dusatoir, Kaino or SOB but Elsom has been indifferent ( lost captains armband) and Lobbe in an 8 I think?

Croft is a great player IMO who best days are ahead of him.

Think you are being hard on Fitzgerald by the way. Yes hes off form but I would have him at Tiger tomorrow

 

[calculon]

It seems as good a place as any to put this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2USK9DolxU&feature=player_embedded

Back when we were great...

RWC final 2003

I remember that day very clearly. I watched the game in my living room. I was normally neutral towards England - neither rooting for them nor against them. But as England seemed to be taking care of the teams that put Ireland out - first France, and then Aus for most of that game, I couldn't help but get behind them. Regardless of how England did in the final, Johnny Wilkinson, for me at least (for better or for worse) immortalized himself in the semis. Kicking, all of your 24 points, getting penalties, and making the big tackles. It was like an irresistible force (France) met an immovable object in Wilkinson. Suddenly they were apprehensive - their bag of tricks wasn't working any more. I think they were actually terrorised by Wilkinson to a degree. That was actually the real final for me - not the Aus game. That French team would have beaten Australia up that year IMO. Towards the end of the Aus game, my neutrality re-emerged. I decided I didn't care what happened with the kick, whether it went over or not. When it went over and I saw the look in faces of the Aus players, I couldn't help but feel sick. I didn't begrudge England. I just felt so sorry for Australia. Beaten by the Poms lol! It was an incredible tournament in terms of some of the memorable games that were so close. I would have felt more sorry for the Ireland team except that Argentina team was class, even then. They got much better as the tournament went on and I think they could have beaten France even then. Ireland didn't have Contepomi.

In the end I was gutted for the Aussies I have to be honest.

p.s I didn't watch the video and refuse to. Hehe ^^
This is gonna be the best world cup ever. Backs are gonna win it this time. The pendulum must swing!

 

[Peat]

Croft was the best player against South Africa last autumn before he went off injured. Was our best forward for most of the preceding Six Nations. Was probably our best forward during that little phase where Johnson played Worsley at 7. Played well for the Lions. Played as well as any forward down under. Was our best forward the time before last we played New Zealand at Twickenham, probably just out and out our best player. And so on...

He doesn't impose himself on opposition packs. He doesn't go crashing into people. To be honest, he's not really a 6. He's a 7 masquerading as a 6 because of his height, which works for England as most of our 7s are 6s. He makes turnovers, arrives first to rucks, secures ball, runs support lines and the rest of it. A lot of his carrying is done in tighter channels though and he can make yards there but he's no powerhouse. Thats more due to technique I think though, when he gets low he's got good leg drive. I think he's as good as any of those you just named there. Just different. Mindyou, I wouldn't call Croft world class, and I wouldn't put that label on any of the names mentioned either.

 

[j-dawg]

England will take apart Argentina here. With or without an on form Croft.

and about that video. What the hell happend to Ben Cohen?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I think Argentina will surprise you guys and snatch a win

 

[JW.]

How? On what aspect of the game will Argentina beat England?

 

[JW.]

England will take apart Argentina here. With or without an on form Croft.

and about that video. What the hell happend to Ben Cohen?

I think he got injured, lost form. Remember him seeing him play at Bristol-Northampton wasen't very good then altough I was excited to him see him back then . Interesting queston though I for one would like to know. He's doing some anti-gay bullying in America now I think.

 

[Logorrhea]

I'm not ignoring the previous bits of your post, I just saw all those games you mentioned and dont remember Croft ever putting in a performance that stood out. For a loose forward thats pretty difficult thing to do.

You are also praising Croft for his performances through the days when England were playing some of the worst rugby ever seen on the planet. A lot of which changed when the new players were introduced. I seem to remember Flood (before he broke), Aston, Foden (in particular), Youngs, Palmer, Lawes, Cole, Hartley etc all taking a fair bit of the credit for the improved performances. I rarely heard about Crofts huge impact on anything but another sterile performance against Scotland. Again, I think hes a fine player, just seriously overhyped.

To be honest, he's not really a 6. He's a 7 masquerading as a 6 because of his height, which works for England as most of our 7s are 6s.

I think we are pretty much agreed that Croft is an undersized and underpowered second row, hes an oversized and ineffective openside, and hes not an overly effective 6. But you dissagree with me and tell me hes as good as any other 6 in the world at the moment?

Not trying to get into a ding dong with you about it. I'll happily agree to dissagree ................... but I dissagree.