Pascal Papé's behaviour

[tituslechmakus]

Some say Pascale Papé is our best second row and vice captain ... I say he's a morron !!!
His foul play yesterday, leading to a yellow card is symptomatic of his general behaviour. This guy is here for nothing but brawling. It was acceptable 20 or 30 years ago, but in modern rugby, with video ref, it is very penalizing for his team. We had decently kickable a penalty, but the ref reverted it and gave him a yellow. That is totally understandable after having seen his kneeing in Heaslip's back.

So I hope the comission will give him a month or 2 to teach him what to do !
If you pay attention to all his matches, he's always in the middle of the brawls ... ALWAYS. That could be forgiven if he was good, but I don't find him so ...

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd agree, he's a grub, and a pretty average player.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Is it just me or has lock become a bit of a problem position for France?
I quite liked Milo Chluski but I appreciate he's hardly a young man at this point...

 

[Amiga500]

So I hope the comission will give him a month or 2 to teach him what to do !

There could be an argument for significantly more.

Heaslip has a broken back - if Pape had dropped him on his head breaking a vertebra further up, there'd be calls for 12+ months suspension.

 

[goodNumber10]

There could be an argument for significantly more.

Heaslip has a broken back - if Pape had dropped him on his head breaking a vertebra further up, there'd be calls for 12+ months suspension.

it's a serious injury, caused by serious foul play.

This is on a par with gouging and even Clarke's act of viciousness.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think the difficulty is punishing someone harshly when there isn't any conclusive evidence that it was intentional - scientifically speaking.

His record has to count against him though - he's been shown to be an intentionally dirty player throughout his career.
In fact, I think he is probably the pre-eminent "dirty ****" of the last 5 years.

 

[ncurd]

First up I've never bought the argument about the extent of the injury caused by the offense should matter. What should matter is the extent of injury that could have been caused, intention and previous record. Personally with poor record and potential serious injury (which it did cause) I'd question his intentions regardless of what they were I'd ban for a significant amount of time at least until end of the season, I'd consider the world cup as well. The only way to stop player especially repeat offenders is to come down on them like a ton of bricks. That way you'll even see the accidents drop.

Example I personally think spear tackling has dropped considerably since the Warburton incident (anyone got stats to back that up?) mainly because players know any infringement regardless of intention may see them off the field permanently.

 

[tituslechmakus]

Is it just me or has lock become a bit of a problem position for France?
I quite liked Milo Chluski but I appreciate he's hardly a young man at this point...

I wouldn't say locks are a problem here. Maestri is still among top10/20 maybe, but he's a bit alone ! We have decent second rows, not extraordinary ones. I would say n10 is a big problem (but that has been for about 10 years now) ...

- - - Updated - - -

First up I've never bought the argument about the extent of the injury caused by the offense should matter. What should matter is the extent of injury that could have been caused, intention and previous record. Personally with poor record and potential serious injury (which it did cause) I'd question his intentions regardless of what they were I'd ban for a significant amount of time at least until end of the season, I'd consider the world cup as well. The only way to stop player especially repeat offenders is to come down on them like a ton of bricks. That way you'll even see the accidents drop.

Example I personally think spear tackling has dropped considerably since the Warburton incident (anyone got stats to back that up?) mainly because players know any infringement regardless of intention may see them off the field permanently.

His intentions ? Appart from hurting the badest possible his opponent, I don't see ... He always looks for crap as we say here ! Means he's always looking for causing a brawl ! And there is nothing vicious in his way of doing. He's simply dumb.

 

[ncurd]

I mean whether he intended to do it or not as a player with plenty of previous of dirty play I'd question whether what he did was accidental. Which is what I meant by intentions.

Being dumb has nothing to do with giving out punishment. You can't argue against a speeding fine by saying you were too dumb to read the speed limit

 

[tituslechmakus]

I mean whether he intended to do it or not as a player with plenty of previous of dirty play I'd question whether what he did was accidental. Which is what I meant by intentions.

Being dumb has nothing to do with giving out punishment. You can't argue against a speeding fine by saying you were too dumb to read the speed limit

His intention is clearly to knee Heaslip's back. And I would say, for having followed him for a while, I never liked him. He's rough beyond the limit, on the bad sense. Could we say brutal ?
Being dumb has nothing to do with driving it is just about having nothing between your 2 ears ! I wasn't trying to argue about a punishment, it would serve our team to kick him out !!! I would like the comission to be fair for once and give him the right penalty. Remember Attoub's 52 weeks few years ago ... That was not fair, Papé should have got it !!!

 

[dasNdanger]

First up I've never bought the argument about the extent of the injury caused by the offense should matter. What should matter is the extent of injury that could have been caused, intention and previous record. Personally with poor record and potential serious injury (which it did cause) I'd question his intentions regardless of what they were I'd ban for a significant amount of time at least until end of the season, I'd consider the world cup as well. The only way to stop player especially repeat offenders is to come down on them like a ton of bricks. That way you'll even see the accidents drop.

Example I personally think spear tackling has dropped considerably since the Warburton incident (anyone got stats to back that up?) mainly because players know any infringement regardless of intention may see them off the field permanently.

I agree, to a point. If a player knows that any dangerous play may keep him off the pitch indefinitely then I think they'll think twice about taking chances. Of course, there are times when an infringement is a total accident and usually the attacking player shows by his body language (or career record) that he wasn't attempting to cause injury. These things do need to be taken into consideration, otherwise rugby will end up being a non-contact sport if every hit was called into question.

However, other players (perhaps like this Pascal fella) have a record of dirty play, or they obviously show malicious intention in their actions. There should be no tolerance for such things. I remember when I first started watching the game about 15 years ago and players were suspended for weeks for throwing a punch or stomping, but even those offenses just get a red card at best these days. I don't care how good a player is, or how vital he is to the team, if he's a dirty player then he needs to be dealt with in the strongest way possible.

(I also acknowledge there is a certain amount of on-field 'punishments' meted out by other players for some minor offense during play - those have always been winked at and for the most part amount to nothing much - I don't consider those to be very serious.)



das

 

[Chistera]

I wouldn't say locks are a problem here. Maestri is still among top10/20 maybe, but he's a bit alone ! We have decent second rows, not extraordinary ones. I would say n10 is a big problem (but that has been for about 10 years now) ...

- - - Updated - - -

Completely agree with you as for Papé, dumb behaviour, this player should never France captain and if don't factor in his usual shenanigans (trying to influence the ref, always being on the limit on the foul, provocating the opponent...) he's nothing more than an average player on the decline. Him being sidelined until the end of the 6 Nations would be great news. Would allow for Taofifénua to get a real go as a stater and Vahaamahina (must have spelled this wrong, always do) to come back into the squad, he's been good with Clermont lately. As for Maestri, he was our best player on the pitch yesterday, incredibly consistent player, seriously underrated, clearly within the NH top 5 and worldwide top 10 as a lock in my opinion.

 

[big ginger 8]

It was a terrible act but apparently that's his first yellow in his international career!

 

[Feicarsinn]

Yeah, I'm going to hold off on condemning him based solely on this. If anyone has any other stories of him acting the maggot then maybe I'd take a different view, but lots of players who aren't necessarily dirty do stupid things like this. Heaslip himself knee McCaw in the head, Hayes' stamp on Healy, etc.

Just don't do it again eh?

 

[goodNumber10]

Yeah, I'm going to hold off on condemning him based solely on this. If anyone has any other stories of him acting the maggot then maybe I'd take a different view, but lots of players who aren't necessarily dirty do stupid things like this. Heaslip himself knee McCaw in the head, Hayes' stamp on Healy, etc.

Just don't do it again eh?

He was the most sin binnned player in the 2013/14 Top 14 - 4, and one red.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/09/27...scal-pape-shown-yellow-cards-for-top-14-fight

 

[The Jones Boy]

Everybody has kneed Richie McCaw in the head, it's almost a right of passage for International forwards.
Pape- that was intentional, no question.
It was cowardly, it was a cheap shot and off the field it would be GBH.
Bury him with a two year ban.

 

[McTallshort]

Everybody has kneed Richie McCaw in the head, it's almost a right of passage for International forwards.
Pape- that was intentional, no question.
It was cowardly, it was a cheap shot and off the field it would be GBH.
Bury him with a two year ban.

So would any legal tackle in the game.

Its a cheap shot, all International players do one at some point in there career, look at Healey in Dublin stamping on Coles ankle, not something you would expect from him. It happens a lot less then in the old days.

 

[Captain Robshaw]

Is it me or did the replay not look "that" bad? I mean if he really meant to cause the damage he did fair enough but to the outside eye it doesn't look anywhere near as bad as a Schalk Burger for example. Short ban and move on surely?

 

[SharksFan86]

I think a ban from rest of six nations would be a spot on punishment and maybe France will just move on forwards without him.

 

[FrenchFan]

No shortage of better alternatives: Flanquart Vahaamina Taofefinua

Tao has been growing in the shadow of Botha and Williams (who are both retiring) he is the One, hugely powerful and great hands for a big bloke.

But the staff are hopeless conservatives and like to cling to players even when they're on their way out (Michalak). A ban will get Papé out of the way. And only injuries to average players (Tillous-Borde) allows for the return of better ones (Parra)

The hand of Fate and Lady Luck are far better selectors....