New Zealand - RWC 2015 Discussion Thread

[austingtir]

You're drawing a long bow to say that the game plan didn't change because Carter isn't a great kicker of dropped goals. 2007 aside, when has he ever actually had to kick drop goals for you to make this claim? I'm open to persuasion.
Sopoaga won't go to the WC so I doubt his ability to kick drop goals is a factor in his selection. His time to sit in the third flyhalf spot will be next year. Carter, Barrett, and Slade will go.

What are you on about? NZ has never focused on kicking drop goals and dan is not good at them anyway. End of story. Theres nothing to talk about here!


Slade was bloody average during super15 and im a big supporter of his. We'll see he goes through the rugby championship.

Sopoaga just seems to have an ability to put that ball on a string which imo Barrett and Slade DONT have. Out of all our first fives Sopoaga is actually the one that suits the way we play the most imo. If Hansen can get him to play consistently like he did against the Sharks this year he could be the next big thing. I havent seen a 10 dominate a team like he did to the sharks in a long time.

But I agree its arguably to late to be bringing him in as a certain backup now.

 

[William18]

There's no reason Carter shouldn't be good at drop goals. He has kicked a few over his career. If he practised them and it was made a tactic then I'm sure he would have had a great chance of slotting one over.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Thats because Dan just simply never been that good at drop goals so it would likely of hardly entered the equation.

Sopoaga who is now selected has proven to be pretty adept at drop goals and that could be one of the reasons for Hansen selecting him.

What are you on about? NZ has never focused on kicking drop goals and dan is not good at them anyway. End of story. Theres nothing to talk about here!

[video]https://youtu.be/1RUeDoJKdfk[/video]

What you mean like in this video?

 

[goodNumber10]

What you mean like in this video?

To be fair that's a pretty poor drop kick.

 

[Kiwi_]

New Zealanders have always been sour towards drop goals, and seen it as a unsportsmen like act, often they would be met with boo's, especially from SA and English teams.. I can only assume it's because we've always been on the receiving end of them, like Joel Stranskys drop goal in the 95 RWC final, so the All Blacks, subconsciously or not, never embraced it as part of their game, we always wanted to win "outright and fairly", which has led to some embarrassing results, like the French quarter in 07.. Thankfully that stigma is slowly starting to fade and we're not so cynical towards them. At the moment Sopoaga is definitely the best at them.

 

[Regan]

New Zealanders have always been sour towards drop goals, and seen it as a unsportsmen like act, often they would be met with boo's, especially from SA and English teams.. I can only assume it's because we've always been on the receiving end of them, like Joel Stranskys drop goal in the 95 RWC final, so the All Blacks, subconsciously or not, never embraced it as part of their game, we always wanted to win "outright and fairly", which has led to some embarrassing results, like the French quarter in 07.. Thankfully that stigma is slowly starting to fade and we're not so cynical towards them. At the moment Sopoaga is definitely the best at them.

For the most part we only kick them if it's a win/ lose situation which is seen as "acceptable". We still don't kick them throughout the game when nothing's on like SA and England commonly do. Lima may just change that a little though.

 

[goodNumber10]

For the most part we only kick them if it's a win/ lose situation which is seen as "acceptable". We still don't kick them throughout the game when nothing's on like SA and England commonly do. Lima may just change that a little though.

New Zealand don't kick them because they use possession to score tries, whereas SA and England use possession to score points (there is a difference).

I think I recall when Graham Henry took over there was a discussion between himself and Wayne Smith about the best way to win games, they concluded that to most efficient way for NZ to score points was to score tries - as it was their natural skill set to attack ball in hand. So the focus has always been on tries, then penalties if awarded a shot. That's why you seldom see them taking the free drop kick when awarded a penalty as the ethos is tries first goalkicks second.

 

[Kiwi_]

New Zealand don't kick them because they use possession to score tries, whereas SA and England use possession to score points (there is a difference).

I think I recall when Graham Henry took over there was a discussion between himself and Wayne Smith about the best way to win games, they concluded that to most efficient way for NZ to score points was to score tries - as it was their natural skill set to attack ball in hand. So the focus has always been on tries, then penalties if awarded a shot. That's why you seldom see them taking the free drop kick when awarded a penalty as the ethos is tries first goalkicks second.

It's seen as negative Rugby and is frowned upon in NZ. Which is arrogant and stupid to completely discard from our game, over the years we should have had it in our arsenal. That philosophy of Henry is great, but also stinks of his huge weakness; Arrogance.

 

[nickdnz]

To be fair - I don't think anyone can blame an All Black coach for not working drop goals more into the game plans. Since Super Rugby there have been very New Zealand players who drop kicked regularly (Andrew Mehrtens was one) - so it would be a bit strange to ask the players to do it at international level. We certainly saw by 2011 NZ incorporate drop kicks into game - Daniel Carter's one against France for the pool stages as well as Cruden's vs Australia go to show they certainly learned the merit of it.

It's not a strength of Carter, but he's shown he can hit them over more often than not when required.

 

[Kiwi_]

To be fair - I don't think anyone can blame an All Black coach for not working drop goals more into the game plans. Since Super Rugby there have been very New Zealand players who drop kicked regularly (Andrew Mehrtens was one) - so it would be a bit strange to ask the players to do it at international level. We certainly saw by 2011 NZ incorporate drop kicks into game - Daniel Carter's one against France for the pool stages as well as Cruden's vs Australia go to show they certainly learned the merit of it.

It's not a strength of Carter, but he's shown he can hit them over more often than not when required.

Henry definitely learned his lesson after 2007.

 

[Shaggy]

To be fair - I don't think anyone can blame an All Black coach for not working drop goals more into the game plans. Since Super Rugby there have been very New Zealand players who drop kicked regularly (Andrew Mehrtens was one) - so it would be a bit strange to ask the players to do it at international level. We certainly saw by 2011 NZ incorporate drop kicks into game - Daniel Carter's one against France for the pool stages as well as Cruden's vs Australia go to show they certainly learned the merit of it.

It's not a strength of Carter, but he's shown he can hit them over more often than not when required.

It's definitely a low percentage winning option if it's required in the dying minutes for the ABs. I can't see them making too many attempts during the match, unless they already have a penalty advantage.

I think they are much better off keeping the ball in play, and persevering for a try (like they did against Ireland in extra time, a couple of years ago)

If the game goes into extra time, it's usually better for them ... A drop goal attempt seems like a roll of the dice to me

 

[goodNumber10]

It's definitely a low percentage winning option if it's required in the dying minutes for the ABs. I can't see them making too many attempts during the match, unless they already have a penalty advantage.

I think they are much better off keeping the ball in play, and persevering for a try (like they did against Ireland in extra time, a couple of years ago)

If the game goes into extra time, it's usually better for them ... A drop goal attempt seems like a roll of the dice to me

To be fair they needed a try to draw against Ireland so a drop goal wasn't an option.

But....There are too many variables outside of their control in a drop goal situation, with ball in hand their processes control what they are doing and it's then purely a matter of execution until the score comes.

Essentially going for a drop goal when you are even Stevens and going for a drop goal when you are behind are two very different scenarios carrying very different risks.

 

[TobesHodges]

Thank you hansen for taking milner-scudder!

 

[nickdnz]

I write this in reply to an article in "The Telegraph" written by someone called James, which is not accepting comments. The piece is headlined: "Can anyone stop the All Blacks or will they choke again".
Les Coques and the Pink Poppies have each lost more finals than the entire SH. This despite the fact that referees are selected for the Lottery by their Anglophile index.Now who's choking?
PS I wish Ozzies and Kiwis would stop calling them Poms. It was an error in translation from Mandarin in the first place and is correctly spelled Stops. Slave Trading Opium Pushers!
PPS James like other wannabe Angryish writers of sports fiction, will be sent to Heaven for his efforts and be forced to watch the Game they Play in Heaven for the rest of infinity. The game played in Heaven is always a Kiwi derby with no amateurish match officials from Blighty or its Celtic colonies. This weekend it's the Horrorcanes and the High-LANDERS. Thank you English-style referees in Oz,there is no McAwesome and no Cartier, because it's boring watching perfection all the time unless of course you are a STOP looking in the nirror..

....what.

 

[Shaggy]

To be fair they needed a try to draw against Ireland so a drop goal wasn't an option.

But....There are too many variables outside of their control in a drop goal situation, with ball in hand their processes control what they are doing and it's then purely a matter of execution until the score comes.

Essentially going for a drop goal when you are even Stevens and going for a drop goal when you are behind are two very different scenarios carrying very different risks.

While I get your point that a drop goal wasn't an option in the Ireland game, my point is that the ABs are more likely to go for the ball in hand option, even if they are only two points behind; sure, they'll let fly with an attempted drop goal if they are under penalty advantage, but I can't see them going there otherwise. The drop goal is a good option for teams that have players with a high success rate in converting them, but that's not where the current All Blacks strengths lie.

 

[Canuck]

I write this in reply to an article in "The Telegraph" written by someone called James, which is not accepting comments. The piece is headlined: "Can anyone stop the All Blacks or will they choke again".
Les Coques and the Pink Poppies have each lost more finals than the entire SH. This despite the fact that referees are selected for the Lottery by their Anglophile index.Now who's choking?
PS I wish Ozzies and Kiwis would stop calling them Poms. It was an error in translation from Mandarin in the first place and is correctly spelled Stops. Slave Trading Opium Pushers!
PPS James like other wannabe Angryish writers of sports fiction, will be sent to Heaven for his efforts and be forced to watch the Game they Play in Heaven for the rest of infinity. The game played in Heaven is always a Kiwi derby with no amateurish match officials from Blighty or its Celtic colonies. This weekend it's the Horrorcanes and the High-LANDERS. Thank you English-style referees in Oz,there is no McAwesome and no Cartier, because it's boring watching perfection all the time unless of course you are a STOP looking in the nirror..

Mr ShaghaiDoc, what you've just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Comment of the day Nik.

Exactly how are they at diffusing high ball rush attacks?

Very good after practice drills but that's with controlled environments......cut along story short, they're phenomenal and fast with off loads, switch play and/or carrying ball in play.

BMT will be a factor but they were picked for a reason.

This might be the first RWC that doesn't rely on boring conversions but then again I'm sure we'll both agree that it should be a cracker regardless.

As for kicks/conversions.....we're covered bro

 

[Kapa O Pango]

All Blacks were rusty against Manu Samoa, mainly because the squad was under-strength.

Aaron Smith
Conrad Smith
Ma'a Nonu
Dane Coles
Ben Franks
Malakai Fekitoa
Beauden Barrett
James Broadhurst
Victor Vito
TJ Perenara
Julian Savea
Nehe Milner-Skudder
Lima Sopoaga
Waisake Naholo
Ben Smith
Cory Jane

Not being available during the time.

 

[Shaggy]

It looks as though those players that were called in for the Samoa test have had their chance, and that all of the original 41 selected won't get to play in the remaining four tests before the RWC either.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...y-from-underpressure-all-blacks-in-samoa-test

 

[Kiwi_]

I'm hoping Laulala takes Franks spot.

Would have been nice for Goodes to take Tonys spot.

Tony hobbled around the park.

As much as I love Kevvy, I would start with Elliot ahead of him as well.

Tournament football, no room for sentiment.