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New Zealand - RWC 2015 Discussion Thread

Our front row isn't our strong point..

Coles, KM, Elliot, Harris.. Bit of a worry if Coles goes down injured..

Crockett, Owen and Ben Franks, Faumuina, Moody, Franks been the only real player in form here, but Crockett is very reliable

I'm worried for BR out of everyone, we need this man fit, he is a monster. We have great locks, but BR is something else. You've seen how **** the Chiefs are without him and Cruden.

McCaw putting on the black jersey is a man possessed, let the opposition think he's fading please, then he will come out and kill them. Also Cane is great support along with a great depth in the back row. Injuries to Kaino will likely see Messam starting ahead of him I think..

LS might be there. I'd start with Barrett and Slade on the bench, with LS and Carter in the squad. His combination with Smith is easily one of the best in the world at the moment (form wise). McCaw has always had dips in form at Crusader level, but come ABs time, he puts everything into the game, he will play to the rules as well and if he doesn't come right, Sam Cane is more than capable and even Todd. We have more than enough leadership and seniority in the team to cope with the loss of McCaw.

For MF, Sonny Bill doesn't get a look in, I'm sorry. It's CS, Nonu, Fekitoa, sure you can pick SB for the squad, but even Crotty deserves the nod over him and has done the hard yards unlike Sonny.

For wing I'd personally like to see Naholo or Osbourne with a call up even if he is leaving, but Lowe is solid also.

Fullback, obviously Ben Smith, his back up will cause some head aches. Only injuries would see Milner Skudder get a call up over Piutau and Dagg.

I think it's good to go into the WC with the opposition thinking we're a bit down with injuries and form. It makes us more dangerous, I hope Hansen bloods some players and protects the right ones come the Investec Championship, don't get any injuries!! Especially to Barrett, Retallick, Reid, Ben Smith, Aaron Smith, Savea, Conrad Smith, Coles. These are our absolute crucial players and game breakers/changers. Keep them as fit and protected as possible while also giving them enough game time. Always easier said than done.

Really? Crockett reliable?? He gets pinged a lot for illegal scrummaging, especially against shorter props. And in the World Cup when the defensive mindsets will kick in, giving away needless penalties especially at scrum time is not a good move.

For me I'd go for the Franks brothers, Moody, Faumuina and maybe Woodcock, if he's still up for it.
 
It'll be a big call because (correct me if I'm wrong) Crockett and Woodcock can only play one side of the scrum, not both right? Crockett is usually reliable in terms of his work rate around the field. For a big tall guy he can definitely get around the field pretty well. Although in Super Rugby this year Woodcock has made more meters, carries and offloads that Crocky and he's had just under 100 minutes less game time in a shocking side. Tackling stats are reasonably even, although Woodcock has been more accurate.

Crockett has actually come a long way with his scrummaging technique; he use to get pinged every single time just about. Some matches he still has issues, other matches he's quite dominant. Sometimes the way things play out at scrum time is in the eye of the beholder (referee) too. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Woodcock sneak back in. He was the incumbent after all, as as Heineken said, less of a risk at times.
 
Extended All Blacks Squad Selections.

With the upcoming fixture in Samoa and the Rugby Championship with the RWC ahead, Steve Hansen is looking at taking at least 41 players for these games. I am interested in who everyone would pick for the 41 extended squad.
 
It's an interesting one. Obviously they'll look at taking players who they see as potential fill ins for the World Cup should injury strike.

Hookers - Coles, Mealamu, Elliot, Parsons, Harris, Matu'u
Props - Woodcock, Crockett, Franks, Franks, Faumuina, Moody, Graham
Locks - Retallick, Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Romano, Thrush, Broadhurst
Loose Forwards - Messam, Kaino, Cane, McCaw, Read, Vito, Todd, Savea, Shields
Halfbacks - Smith, Perenara, Weber, Pulu, Ellis
First Fives - Carter, Slade, Barrett, Sopoaga, Taylor
Centres - Williams, Nonu, Smith, Fekitoa, Ngatai
Outside Backs - Dagg, Smith, Naholo, Lowe, Jane, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Piutau

The above squad is larger than 41 players, but no players who play in the final will be eligible.
 
I think Naholo will not make it simply due to him going over seas. I'd imagine they'd go with Osborne. Other than that, looks about right. Maybe Hames over Graham.
 
Read in the paper this morning Clermont are now saying the NZRU have got involved and they're trying to get Naholo out of it....goes against everything I stand for...you should honour you r word...but stuff it...got I hope they can break it!
 
Read in the paper this morning Clermont are now saying the NZRU have got involved and they're trying to get Naholo out of it....goes against everything I stand for...you should honour you r word...but stuff it...got I hope they can break it!

If this is true then that is absolutely...


fantastic.


However I remember something similar with Rene Ranger trying to get out of his Montpellier contract which went up in smokes, so I'm not optimistic.

If Naholo was avalible I'd very happily take him in the All Blacks tomorrow. I like nothing more than right wingers who can run.
 
It's an interesting one. Obviously they'll look at taking players who they see as potential fill ins for the World Cup should injury strike.

Hookers - Coles, Mealamu, Elliot, Parsons, Harris, Matu'u
Props - Woodcock, Crockett, Franks, Franks, Faumuina, Moody, Graham
Locks - Retallick, Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Romano, Thrush, Broadhurst
Loose Forwards - Messam, Kaino, Cane, McCaw, Read, Vito, Todd, Savea, Shields
Halfbacks - Smith, Perenara, Weber, Pulu, Ellis
First Fives - Carter, Slade, Barrett, Sopoaga, Taylor
Centres - Williams, Nonu, Smith, Fekitoa, Ngatai
Outside Backs - Dagg, Smith, Naholo, Lowe, Jane, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Piutau

The above squad is larger than 41 players, but no players who play in the final will be eligible.

I would drop Dagg. He hasn't touched the ball all year. Smith, Skuds and Piutua is enough cover at fullback.
 
I would drop Dagg. He hasn't touched the ball all year. Smith, Skuds and Piutua is enough cover at fullback.

I would drop dagg to but we both know realistically it just aint going to happen. Piutau is goneburgers imo, no reason whatsoever to select him that I can see barring injury.

On a good note Naholo is all but an AB by the sounds of this. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...-stay-with-highlanders-in-new-zealand--report Interesting how Clermont relented Adidas or some big sponsor must of been waving a big stick about or something.
Weather he'll actually make the final squad the WC is debatable I guess but as long as they run him against samoa thats good enough.
 
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the rules around squads and replacement restrictions mean that carrying three hookers and halfbacks is basically a must. Else if a hooker or halfback gets injured before a playoff game he can't be replaced in time and you will have to go into a knockout game with only a single specialist in that position. Considering we genuinely dont have players who can fill those roles in a pinch.

That actually makes selections very tight and there are going to be some really hard done by players.

But is good news for Hika Elliot and Brad Webber

I think what that is going to mean is we wont be able to have as many midfield/outside back cover players. Which may mean limited room for the likes of Crotty, Fekitoa or patrick Osborne. And we will have to rely on the versatility of players like Carter 10,12. Slade 10,12. wing Barrett 10, 15, wing. Ben Smith 15, 13, wing. Jane 14, 15. because of the tight nature of backs SBW will be considered a wing option as well.

That also accounts for the fact that we will take 3 first fives: Carter, Barrett, Slade Their versatility makes taking 3 viable when there would normally only be room for 2. Sopoanga only really comes into the equation if there is another injury.

This is a WC in the UK and with that extra focus or importance should be on the forwards and forwards that perform well in those types of conditions.

Shadow Squad 31 players 18 forwards/13 backs

1, Woody, Moody
2, Coles, Mealamu, Hika
3, O. Franks, Charlie, Ben Franks
4, Whitelock, Tuipalotu
5, Retalick, Broadhurst (Biggest call, outplays thrush every week IMO and he's a genuine big lock unlike thrush. IMO he has to be selected and given a run before the WC)
6, Kaino, Messam
7, McCaw, Cane
8, Read, +1 (from Vito, Luatua, shields, Matt Todd, Savea from the endless selection of loose forwards we have that are good enough to play test footy)
9, Smith, Perenara, Webber
10, Carter, Barrett, Slade
11, Savea
12, Nonu, SBW
13, C. Smith
14, Jane
15, Ben Smith, Dagg

Vito vs luatua for that last spot? I would give to Luatua, he performs better under pressure. IMO vito seems to go missing when the pressure goes on the canes.

You can see how tight a 18/13 split it is in the backs, there is no room for important players like Crotty & Fekitoa and no room for an extra winger like Osborne.

It's also critical for Dagg to be fit find form and play bloody well, there is no room for guys in questionable form to take up one of those 13 spots.

Fringe players
1, Goodes, Manu
2, Parsons, Motu
3, Big Ben T
4, Thrush
5, Romano
6, akira ioane, blade thomson
7, Matt Todd
8, Vito
9, Elis, pulu
10, Sopoanga, Tom Taylor (I actually see Tom Taylor as an ideal player for world cup rugby in the UK)
11, Lowe, Osborne
12, Crotty, Moala
13, Fekitoa, Saili
14, Naholo
15, Tom Marshall, Skudder, Tom Taylor

Key strategie, manage players workload. Kaino was overworked last WC and was a walking wreck when the final arrived, he and Messam should share gametime in an effort to keep Kaino fresh for the finals. The same philosophy should be applied to other critical players like Read, McCaw, Whitelock, Retalick, Savea, Aaron Smith, ben Smith. Guys who are experienced enough they dont need 4-5 games in a row to find form. It's more important they are fresh.

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I honestly dont see Naholo as a contender unless there is an injury and even then I would select Osborne next, I think Osborne has more strings to his bow, more suited to test footy. And realistically if someone like Jane is injured it's more likely Crotty or Fekitoa will come in. Guys with experience.
 
Dagg is not fit enough or versatile enough for this WC. Unless they want to play Ben on the wing. Milner Skudder is far better option. He's in form, fit and can cover wing as well. We need to forget Dagg.

Quite worried about Carter, Barrett and Slade. They're all so fragile, one of them is bound to pick up a tournament ending injury, maybe even 2 of them.
 
will be disappointed if we can't find space for fekitoa, i'll take your word on the maths

can someone fill me on SBW...just realised i have hear bugger all about how he's playing
 
will be disappointed if we can't find space for fekitoa, i'll take your word on the maths

can someone fill me on SBW...just realised i have hear bugger all about how he's playing

Me to. He's been great for us. SBW and Charlie Ngatai have formed a strong MF for the Chiefs. SBW has one of the best offloads in the game, so that suits our game more.

"Each country was allowed a squad of 31 players for the tournament. These squads were to be submitted to World Rugby by a deadline of 7 September 2015. Once the squad was submitted a player could be replaced if injured, but would not be allowed to return to the squad. There is also a stand-down period of 72 hours before the new player is allowed to take the field. Hence, a replacement player called into a squad on the eve of a game will not be permitted to play in that game."
 
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will be disappointed if we can't find space for fekitoa, i'll take your word on the maths

can someone fill me on SBW...just realised i have hear bugger all about how he's playing

Currently injured.


I would throw Ihaia West into the AB mix, but then might be slightly biased ....
 
Form is important to a degree, but I think some posters here are overemphasizing it far too much.

The last few years have been all about investing time, energy, resources and commitment to certain players for this very moment. If we just went ahead and picked a guy like Broadhurst then to me that's completely nonsensical in terms of 2012 up until now. Obviously form can go up and down since 2012, but I don't believe it's the only factor in selecting players. Experience, reliance, precedent for how they perform at international level have to be considered, as well as performance variance between Super Rugby and International Rugby. McCaw hasn't really been on fire, nor have other All Blacks who have received more consistent game time. That doesn't mean I'd leave them out. There is just a phenomena is rugby where some guys just go up about 10 gears at international level, especially in the black jersey.

Thrush has been quiet this year, yes. But it was only last year he was just as good at International as Rettalick or Whitelock. The way he was playing was just as good as any incumbent would play. I also think there's a difference between having a quiet spell, and playing atrociously. I'm not going to be so quick to demonize someone just because they don't sparkle every week with the amount of footy these guys play.

I love Webber and I want him to be in the mix in the All Blacks. But do you think he'll get the nod over Pulu who they've invested time into as third string halfback? Or Ellis who has experience the World Cup? (although his kicking from the base has been shocking). You might be right there, but I don't know.

I would be shocked if you saw Skudder anywhere near the World Cup squad, unless it was for injury. When Dagg has had game time he's gone better than what he has prior to 2015. I accept he's undercooked though. But he can play wing, punt the ball like a 10 and kick goals.

I accept Elliot will probably been the third choice hooker. Parsons doesn't do it for me, and clearly Nathan Harris is still buggered.

I hate to be boring, but I just think established players and versatility are going to be the big winners in the world cup selections. Say what you want about Luatua, but he's an impact player and could easily slot into so many different positions.
 
I agree that I would be very surprised to see many bolters in the squad. I think this RWC we'll be more surprised with guys who don't make the swuad than news guys that do. We have well and truly over 31 guys who have already been a part of the ABs environment for the last few years that we're likely to see some omissions.

The only bright side for fringe ABs is this: three NZ teams are looking likely for a final in SR. That means Hanson may be impressed with 1 or 2 guys who do brilliantly in those games. The second is that we have a test against Samoa that will by necessity introduce a bunch of new players to the ABs. If they shine in training and that match - they may get the nod.
 
Broadhurst has hardly come out of the blue, he would have been on the All Blacks radar for some time, he had a very good season last year. What makes the decision easy for me is that he plays alongside Thrush week in week out and he out plays him week in week out. I also see Retalick as a key cog in the All Blacks WC chances. And I see Broadhurst as someone who can add that size and impact back into the side if Retalick is injured.

Webber will make the squad because he's the closest thing to Aaron Smith we have. Since weepu and Cowan went (lets face it Cowan is not going to make it back in again even though he's playing "ok" for the blues)
Perenara, Pulu & TKB have all been used for the All Blacks and they have basically all failed to establish themselves. IMO webber slots straight into being our #2 halfback.

Webber looks set for test footy IMO, he's got all the skills and he is a very very smart kid.

Dagg is going to be in the squad, just need to face the facts. He will be picked and he simply needs to perform, all the faith that has been put in him for the last 4-5 years he simply needs to repay.

jane is in a similar situation, he's looking ok but he needs to really pick his game up come world cup time and I actually back him to. i would go as far as to say I think he's even playing within himself a bit, as I think a few other players are.

The Naholo situation is interesting but remember Tom Marshall was also going to sign an overseas deal when the All Black coaches told him he was in selection frame so he recommitted. These guys are close but lets face it how do you fit them into 13 All Black backs? You cant... There will be a lot of very unlucky players. It's already a travesty that Fekitoa and Crotty probably wont make the squad unless there is an injury. And they are basically established All Blacks.

You could make a team of 23 fringe players from NZ that wont make the All Black squad that could beat any team in the world.
 
Interesting points. I wouldn't be upset at all if Webber is the third string halfback going into this. But that's kinda my point with these guys on World Cup year. It's all very well saying Skudder is going good, Webber is good. But is it that wise to have them debut on World Cup year?

To be fair to Perenara, going into this Super Rugby season you could only ask him to play better than what we saw on the end of year tour. At least that's what I wanted to see from him. And he has. Yes it's easier when you've got Savea, Smith, Nonu, Ardie, Coles and Skudder around you but 7 tries all up? I would argue he isn't benefiting from that pack, he's part of that awesome pack.

I hope Jane continues to improve. I still like him. The reason why is because he can have a quiet game but still set up one or two tries out of nowhere. It's the small touches he makes. His athleticism, ariel skills, chip kicking when out of space, foot work are all world class when he's on song. That's kinda what I want to see compliment Savea on the other wing, who is pace + power.
 

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