Highlanders 2013

[Draggs]

I thought behind Ellison, Burleigh was the highlanders best midfielder, would be a shame if he missed out on a super contract after this season which I think was a breakthrough for him. Clearly showed he was at home at that level.

Agree with this.
I have never been a massive Nonu fan, and I think he is showing his age. He'll certainly play some good rugby for the Highlanders, but I am not sure how he will affect the backline.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Gareth Anscombe
Aaron Cruden
Robbie Robinson
Nick Crosswell
Hikawera Elliot
Mahonri Schwalger
Andrew Horrell


and SBW...nuff said

And to Darwin:

SBW and Cruden (and to a lesser extent, Schwalger) are all similar situations to Hore, Gear etc... But the others mentioned are completely different. Bringing in players from other regions is one thing, but when you start importing seriously quality players that easily would slip into most first XVs in the competition, well I think that's a bit lame.

Robinson was **** for the Highlanders - absolute kack. Crosswell has been ok for the Highlanders, though not spectacular. Elliot played only 12 Super games before moving to the Chiefs (and only played a few minutes in each of those matches). Horrell started Super Rugby with the Chiefs. Most of these players are only good now BECAUSE they played for the Chiefs. Contrast that with Gear, Hore, Woodcock, Thorn, Nonu who have played 476 matches between them for their main franchises. I have no issue with the odd player going to any other franchise, but when you half a grand worth of caps come into your team who you haven't invested any training in, well I take issue with that.

Also it's worth noting that the Blues didn't want Anscombe - he didn't have a choice but to leave. That's a bit different to players voluntary leaving.

 

[Darwin]

Agree with this.
I have never been a massive Nonu fan, and I think he is showing his age. He'll certainly play some good rugby for the Highlanders, but I am not sure how he will affect the backline.

I think Nonu will have a massive effect on our backline. 12 was a real problem position for us last season - we either had someone their who can't pass (Treeby), or someone who wasn't much of a threat with ball in hand, and a poor defender (Burleigh). When Treeby was at 12 the ball didn't get out to our wings. When Burleigh was at 12 our defense was very lateral, as we lacked someone to straighten the line - we spent the whole game going side to side, but never had any room out wide.

I'm not sure about Nonu showing his age - I thought he showed over the later half of the Rugby Championship that he is still the premier 12 in world rugby.

And to Darwin:

SBW and Cruden (and to a lesser extent, Schwalger) are all similar situations to Hore, Gear etc... But the others mentioned are completely different. Bringing in players from other regions is one thing, but when you start importing seriously quality players that easily would slip into most first XVs in the competition, well I think that's a bit lame.

Robinson was **** for the Highlanders - absolute kack. Crosswell has been ok for the Highlanders, though not spectacular. Elliot played only 12 Super games before moving to the Chiefs (and only played a few minutes in each of those matches). Horrell started Super Rugby with the Chiefs. Most of these players are only good now BECAUSE they played for the Chiefs. Contrast that with Gear, Hore, Woodcock, Thorn, Nonu who have played 476 matches between them for their main franchises. I have no issue with the odd player going to any other franchise, but when you half a grand worth of caps come into your team who you haven't invested any training in, well I take issue with that.

Also it's worth noting that the Blues didn't want Anscombe - he didn't have a choice but to leave. That's a bit different to players voluntary leaving.

You mean the same Andrew Hore who was born, breed, and made his provincial debut for Otago?

I didn't hear anyone from the Chiefs region complaining when the Chiefs took Cruden and SBW last season. Or swiped two of the most promising young forwards in the country from the Hurricanes region (Tameifuna, Retallick). The Highlanders are simply doing the same thing that most other franchises have been doing for years (some more than others.... *cough* Crusaders *cough*) - I don't know why people are suddenly getting all wound up about it!

 

[austingtir]

And to Darwin:

SBW and Cruden (and to a lesser extent, Schwalger) are all similar situations to Hore, Gear etc... But the others mentioned are completely different. Bringing in players from other regions is one thing, but when you start importing seriously quality players that easily would slip into most first XVs in the competition, well I think that's a bit lame.

Robinson was **** for the Highlanders - absolute kack. Crosswell has been ok for the Highlanders, though not spectacular. Elliot played only 12 Super games before moving to the Chiefs (and only played a few minutes in each of those matches). Horrell started Super Rugby with the Chiefs. Most of these players are only good now BECAUSE they played for the Chiefs. Contrast that with Gear, Hore, Woodcock, Thorn, Nonu who have played 476 matches between them for their main franchises. I have no issue with the odd player going to any other franchise, but when you half a grand worth of caps come into your team who you haven't invested any training in, well I take issue with that.

Also it's worth noting that the Blues didn't want Anscombe - he didn't have a choice but to leave. That's a bit different to players voluntary leaving.

This sounds like the talk of a paranoid and extremely worried chiefs fan!

Nonu only left before his contract was up with the blues because he knows the landers are now a genuine ***le contender before he retires! Was just watching it on 3 news its pretty obvious why he's jumping ship.

 

[Sam Owen]

Nonu has done a SBW!!

 

[nickdnz]

1. Tony Woodcock (North Harbour)
2. Andrew Hore (Taranaki)
3. Chris King (Taranaki)
4. Jarrad Hoeata (Taranaki)
5. Brad Thorn (Canterbury)
6. Adam Thomson (Otago)
7. John Hardie (Southland)
8. Nasi Manu (Canterbury)
9. Aaron Smith (Manawatu)
10. Colin Slade (Canterbury)
11. Hosea Gear (Wellington)
12. Ma'a Nonu (Wellington)
13. Tamati Ellison (Otago)
14. Kade Poki (Southland)
15. Ben Smith (Otago)

16. Liam Coltman (Otago)
17. Jamie Mackintosh (Southland)
18. Josh Bekhuis (Southland)
19. Doug Tietjens (Manawatu)
20. Fumiaki Tanaka (Otago)
21. Jason Emery (Manawatu)/Lima Sapoaga (Wellington)
22. Buxton Popoali'i (Otago)

Real credit to Otago and Southland's development system. Wost part is that even the players from Otago and Southland, minus Bekhuis, Mackintosh, Coltman, Ben Smith, Hardie, Thomson and in a roundabout way Andrew Hore are even players who were developed in Otago/Southland.

At least it's not the Canes getting taken by suprise, yet again.

 

[Darwin]

1. Tony Woodcock (North Harbour)
2. Andrew Hore (Taranaki)
3. Chris King (Taranaki)
4. Jarrad Hoeata (Taranaki)
5. Brad Thorn (Canterbury)
6. Adam Thomson (Otago)
7. John Hardie (Southland)
8. Nasi Manu (Canterbury)
9. Aaron Smith (Manawatu)
10. Colin Slade (Canterbury)
11. Hosea Gear (Wellington)
12. Ma'a Nonu (Wellington)
13. Tamati Ellison (Otago)
14. Kade Poki (Southland)
15. Ben Smith (Otago)

16. Liam Coltman (Otago)
17. Jamie Mackintosh (Southland)
18. Josh Bekhuis (Southland)
19. Doug Tietjens (Manawatu)
20. Fumiaki Tanaka (Otago)
21. Jason Emery (Manawatu)/Lima Sapoaga (Wellington)
22. Buxton Popoali'i (Otago)

Real credit to Otago and Southland's development system. Wost part is that even the players from Otago and Southland, minus Bekhuis, Mackintosh, Coltman, Ben Smith, Hardie, Thomson and in a roundabout way Andrew Hore are even players who were developed in Otago/Southland.

At least it's not the Canes getting taken by suprise, yet again.

Yet the Chiefs had even less "local" players in their match day 22 last season, but this barely got mentioned

Probably the only players that you could really claim the Highlanders have 'poached' would be Woodcock, Gear and Nonu. The likes of Manu, A Smith, Slade, Emery, Hoeata, Poki etc were not first choice players in their respective franchises (in fact most failed to even make their franchises 30-man squads!) when they left for the Highlanders in search of more game-time (likewise I don't think the Canes 'poached' Ben May, Jack Lam, Chris Smylie, James Marshall etc).

Interestingly I haven't heard you complaining about the Canes "poaching" Ben Franks - I wonder why that is?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yet the Chiefs had even less "local" players in their match day 22 last season, but this barely got mentioned

Probably the only players that you could really claim the Highlanders have 'poached' would be Woodcock, Gear and Nonu. The likes of Manu, A Smith, Slade, Emery, Hoeata, Poki etc were not first choice players in their respective franchises (in fact most failed to even make their franchises 30-man squads!) when they left for the Highlanders in search of more game-time (likewise I don't think the Canes 'poached' Ben May, Jack Lam, Chris Smylie, James Marshall etc).

Interestingly I haven't heard you complaining about the Canes "poaching" Ben Franks - I wonder why that is?

Again, it's not that they aren't local lads which is annoying me, it's that they're players who haven't been developed by the Highlanders.

Manu, Smith, Emery etc., I have no issues with - these players have been developed by the Highlanders, for the Highlanders. Taking promising youngsters is fine, they should go where they're likely to get game time/develop best. When you've got seasoned players jumping ship I do get a bit frustrated.

When one or two guys do it I'm not too worried, that's the whole point of a marquee player - but when a team gets an influx of 476+ Super caps over two seasons, it's a bit disappointing. Teams shouldn't be built on other squad's investments. Maybe I'm alone in this, but if the Highlanders win this season I'm not going to be hugely impressed. The Chiefs won last year on the backs of some mighty fine players, most of whom only have reached their potential with the Chiefs. It really was a case of a team of players banding together and it was rewarding for me as a supporter, because a lot of these guys hadn't shown themselves to be fantastic players in the past.

Really, if the Highlanders don't win it this season, it'll be a horrible disappointment of a season for them. If they win it, well they have the Hurricanes (among others) to thank for that. The Chiefs have Manawatu, Hawke's Bay etc., to partially thank for their success, but the whole point of the provinces now is to feed the franchises. The franchises aren't supposed to feed other franchises.

Just my two cents - if you don't agree then so be it, just getting my point across

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Noun left the canes because he didn't like what was going on there , he's not allowed to play for someone's else...except the blues?

the chiefs took Tom willis and Byron in the early 00's, you seem to only hav a problem if we do it, move on

on another note, how can he get out of his contract with the blue, Kirwan says he can't hol him too it

question for all by the way, where did Richard kahui start playing super rugby?...

 

[nickdnz]

Yet the Chiefs had even less "local" players in their match day 22 last season, but this barely got mentioned

Probably the only players that you could really claim the Highlanders have 'poached' would be Woodcock, Gear and Nonu. The likes of Manu, A Smith, Slade, Emery, Hoeata, Poki etc were not first choice players in their respective franchises (in fact most failed to even make their franchises 30-man squads!) when they left for the Highlanders in search of more game-time (likewise I don't think the Canes 'poached' Ben May, Jack Lam, Chris Smylie, James Marshall etc).

Interestingly I haven't heard you complaining about the Canes "poaching" Ben Franks - I wonder why that is?

Cause it's a one off example. Try to think of another starting player we've 'poached', see how long it takes till you get to Lomu (we won't mention that the Highlanders were also after Franks...). I actually did mention the Chiefs last season, and the Blues, all of whom were stealing from the Canes. Our development system seems to be a revolving door.

 

[Draggs]

Don't get me wrong, I think Nonu will play well for the Highlanders, I am just not a fan of his.
The defence issues with Burleigh might not have just been down to him. Highlanders were switching between Delany and Noakes, which is bound to have an effect on alignment.

Players leaving is part of the professional game, it just happens.

 

[Larksea]

Nonu has done a SBW!!

the difference is that SBW was very clear about his plans and the Crusaders knew very early that he was going to shift and why.

Nonu basically agreed to stay at the blues and then went to the highlanders at the last minute.

I don't think the blues will miss nonu too much, he seems more at home and more committed to the All Blacks than super rugby, the problem for the blues is that the have been building a squad expecting him to be their main 12 and now at the last minute when most players have been signed he's gone and they have to fill a gap.

 

[Keithmurdoch]

Dear Highlanders Franchise.

Stop stealing every other teams promising players and start producing your own, you lousy ********.

This seriously annoys me. Emery should be playing for the Canes, he is produced through Wellington and Palmy rugby, we produced the most promising young player (yet again!) and he gets stolen and likely ruined by the Highlanders. What a lame franchise. Hope they come last next season.

You might want to look at your knucklehead administrators for not signing Jamie Joseph when they had the chance - players clearly want to play for him. I hope the Canes do well next year - at least upsetting a couple of the actual contenders for the playoffs (except the Highlanders of course)

 

[Darwin]

Again, it's not that they aren't local lads which is annoying me, it's that they're players who haven't been developed by the Highlanders.

Manu, Smith, Emery etc., I have no issues with - these players have been developed by the Highlanders, for the Highlanders. Taking promising youngsters is fine, they should go where they're likely to get game time/develop best. When you've got seasoned players jumping ship I do get a bit frustrated.

When one or two guys do it I'm not too worried, that's the whole point of a marquee player - but when a team gets an influx of 476+ Super caps over two seasons, it's a bit disappointing. Teams shouldn't be built on other squad's investments. Maybe I'm alone in this, but if the Highlanders win this season I'm not going to be hugely impressed. The Chiefs won last year on the backs of some mighty fine players, most of whom only have reached their potential with the Chiefs. It really was a case of a team of players banding together and it was rewarding for me as a supporter, because a lot of these guys hadn't shown themselves to be fantastic players in the past.

Really, if the Highlanders don't win it this season, it'll be a horrible disappointment of a season for them. If they win it, well they have the Hurricanes (among others) to thank for that. The Chiefs have Manawatu, Hawke's Bay etc., to partially thank for their success, but the whole point of the provinces now is to feed the franchises. The franchises aren't supposed to feed other franchises.

Just my two cents - if you don't agree then so be it, just getting my point across

Yes, and the if the Highlanders win this season it will be exactly the same! Schwalger, Cruden, and SBW is very similar to Woodcock, Nonu, Slade, and Gear (I don't include Hore, as he was developed in the Highlanders region - indeed he was on fringes of Super Rugby before he was 'poached' by Taranaki). The idea that the Highlanders are building a team by stealing marquee players from other franchises is a myth. Like the Chiefs, the vast majority of the side will have developed to their rugby potential within the Highlanders franchise. The likes of Ellison and (possibly) Thorn are very different cases - these players have been lured back from overseas, not 'poached' from other franchises, so have no place in the discussion. Again, I'm not saying I'm a massive fan of the current system, but it is a reality of professional rugby. It has been happening for years, and will continue to happen into the future, and the Highlanders are far from the only franchise doing this (indeed we are years behind most of the other franchises in this regard!).

Noun left the canes because he didn't like what was going on there , he's not allowed to play for someone's else...except the blues?

the chiefs took Tom willis and Byron in the early 00's, you seem to only hav a problem if we do it, move on

on another note, how can he get out of his contract with the blue, Kirwan says he can't hol him too it

question for all by the way, where did Richard kahui start playing super rugby?...

The same team as Doug Howlett

In terms on Nonu, apparently he had an exit clause in his contract, which gave him the options of leaving the Blues at the end of his first season.

Cause it's a one off example. Try to think of another starting player we've 'poached', see how long it takes till you get to Lomu (we won't mention that the Highlanders were also after Franks...). I actually did mention the Chiefs last season, and the Blues, all of whom were stealing from the Canes. Our development system seems to be a revolving door.

Again, it is not the fault of the other franchises that the Hurricanes are hopeless at identifying talented players. Apparently Jason Emery was keen to stay with the Hurricanes, but they only offered him a wider training squad contract so they could include superstars like Richard Buckman, Richard Lee-Lo, and Jayden Hayward in their main squad :lol:

I know it sucks when other sides take your best players - as has already been alluded to we have had the likes of Bryon Kelleher, Nick Evans, Kees Meeuws, Israel Dagg etc "poached" off us when they were in their prime....

Don't get me wrong, I think Nonu will play well for the Highlanders, I am just not a fan of his.
The defence issues with Burleigh might not have just been down to him. Highlanders were switching between Delany and Noakes, which is bound to have an effect on alignment.

Players leaving is part of the professional game, it just happens.

I don't think the switching at 10 helped Burleigh on defense, but he has never been a very strong defender - indeed that is the main reason he hadn't been given a shot Super Rugby before this. His positioning is usually pretty good, he just struggles to contain larger backs due to his lack of size/physicality. He could well be heading up to the Blues, as I understand they are on the lookout for a 12....

the difference is that SBW was very clear about his plans and the Crusaders knew very early that he was going to shift and why.

Nonu basically agreed to stay at the blues and then went to the highlanders at the last minute.

I don't think the blues will miss nonu too much, he seems more at home and more committed to the All Blacks than super rugby, the problem for the blues is that the have been building a squad expecting him to be their main 12 and now at the last minute when most players have been signed he's gone and they have to fill a gap.

Yeah it is a big blow for them. There aren't that many good midfield options left in New Zealand. Burleigh is obviously and option, as is Willison who was de-listed by the Chiefs. Fekitoa and Carpenter have been solid for Auckland and Northland respectively, but aren't really superstars (though Fekitoa is still young).

 

[bobbilycious]

I thought the NZRU was in charge with the signing of coaches.

 

[donmcdazzle]

To be fair, players from Hawkes Bay, Manawatu, and even Taranaki shouldn't feel any loyalty towards the Hurricanes and why should they? How many Hawkes Bay and Manawatu players get picked for the Hurricanes? Hardly any. They never look outside Wellington for their players really, so they have only themselves to blame for 'losing' talented guys from the other provinces. Last season is a prime example. Manawatu had a great season, beat Wellington away, beat Taranaki at home, beat Hawkes Bay in round robin (before losing to them in the final). So by any measure they were at least not the worst Hurricanes province.

How many players did we get in the Hurricanes? Zero. Cruden had been screwed around by Hammett in 2011 so signed elsewhere, Crosswell had never been given a decent shake either, no interest was shown in Fitzgerald, Fia or Tikoirotuma, Smith had been overlooked for the likes of Chris Eaton and Tyson Keats in 2011. The Hurricanes then went on to pick a host of underperformers from their NPC team. That they had an ok season is besides the point, they may well have been just as good or better had they chosen other players. The point I guess is why would Emery feel loyalty towards the Hurricanes when the other franchises give way more opportunities to our players.

 

[Draggs]

Any movement on the Maitland front? He would be another cracking signing.
Highlanders will have a steady back and some killer backs:
Smith, Slade, Gear, Nonu, Ellison, Popuali'i (unsure about this wing, maybe Ensor for smaller matches), Not sure about fullback either.

Backup scrumhalf will be interesting, seems like some think Tanaka will make the cut. Any opinions?

Joseph must be quite a convincing person, he has pulled in some very influential players.
What I'd give to have him cross the Indian Ocean...

 

[donmcdazzle]

Any movement on the Maitland front? He would be another cracking signing.
Highlanders will have a steady back and some killer backs:
Smith, Slade, Gear, Nonu, Ellison, Popuali'i (unsure about this wing, maybe Ensor for smaller matches), Not sure about fullback either.

Backup scrumhalf will be interesting, seems like some think Tanaka will make the cut. Any opinions?

Joseph must be quite a convincing person, he has pulled in some very influential players.
What I'd give to have him cross the Indian Ocean...

Are we even sure Slade is going to a good player when he comes back? He has hardly played in like 3 seasons. He was rusty and average last season in the few games he played (understandable given his injuries), but what makes people think he will be anything other than rusty and average when he comes back this time? How much patience will Joseph show in him to try regain form when he thinks he probably has a shot at winning the whole thing with the squad he has amassed. I reckon Sopoaga will be the starter, if not from the word go then surely after the first or second bumbling performance from Slade.

 

[Draggs]

That is certainly a possibility. Sopoaga is a good young player as well, so either way the Highlanders should be covered.
I think Slade still has plenty of rugby in him, just need to ease himself back into it.

 

[Larksea]

the highlanders squad really is starting to look like the definition of a "super" team

A group of hand selected individuals from far and wide put together to form a squad I think is maybe the strongest since the glory days of otago rugby. Highlanders squad used to be mostly a bunch of unknows outside Cowan, Thomson, Ben Smith and Jamie Mackintosh and of them Cowan was the only regular All Black. Now it's a squad of superstars and household names.

Quite a turnaround.

I wonder how much the new stadium has influenced players going to the region? It's clearly the best in NZ right now, pretty damn awesome.