England vs New Zealand

[munross]

England team
15 Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks)
14 Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby)
13 Dan Hipkiss (Leicester Tigers)
12 Ayoola Erinle (Biarritz)
11 Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
10 Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon)
9 Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
1 Tim Payne (London Wasps)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Duncan Bell (Bath Rugby)
4 Simon Shaw (London Wasps)
5 Steve Borthwick (Saracens, captain)
6 Joe Worsley (London Wasps)
7 Lewis Moody (Leicester Tigers)
8 James Haskell (Stade Francais)

Replacements
16 Steve Thompson (Brive)
17 David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
18 Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
19 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
20 Danny Care (Harlequins)
21 Shane Geraghty (Northampton Saints)
22 Mathew Tait (Sale Sharks)

Shaw and Worsley set to start, good or bad thing?

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Intercept King JdV @ Nov 18 2009, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

England team
15 Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks)
14 Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby)
13 Dan Hipkiss (Leicester Tigers)
12 Ayoola Erinle (Biarritz)
11 Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
10 Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon)
9 Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
1 Tim Payne (London Wasps)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
3 Duncan Bell (Bath Rugby)
4 Simon Shaw (London Wasps)
5 Steve Borthwick (Saracens, captain)
6 Joe Worsley (London Wasps)
7 Lewis Moody (Leicester Tigers)
8 James Haskell (Stade Francais)

Replacements
16 Steve Thompson (Brive)
17 David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
18 Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
19 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
20 Danny Care (Harlequins)
21 Shane Geraghty (Northampton Saints)
22 Mathew Tait (Sale Sharks)

Shaw and Worsley set to start, good or bad thing?[/b]

Good thing, more experience is definately what me need.

Shaw is a better player than Deacon, and more proven than Lawes. Superb for the Lions and a terrific leader.
Croft needs a good kick up the arse. Needs to know his place is not cemented but also Worsley and Moody can support the (relative) newcomer Haskell at an unusual position for him at no.8.

Would prefer to see a combination of Hipkiss, Tait in the centre but i guess Erinle deserves his chance.

Banahan should have been dropped, but there just aren't the players to replace him with. At least he can catch unlike a certain Northampton full-back who has been touted to replace him.

Payne is ****, get him out of my team.
Get him out of my country.

 

[gingergenius]

Well, any student of England selection policy since 2003 will find this highly unsurprising.

1. Start out with a lot of hope. New youngsters come in
2. Team plays stodgily. Youngsters blamed.
3. Old players brought in.

Effectively, this is a good thing for the NZ game. Shaw simply had to come straight in. Worsley gives more dog to the pack, and since the selection/ gameplan is so negative and conservative, there's not much point in having Croft there. Cueto to fullback was also obvious.

As for Erinle -> Geraghty... hmm. I'm no fan of Geraghty but given the lack of Flutey and JT-H being injured, he is the only other option at 12.

Now, we have Hodgson at 9 who is an organised scrum half. Wilkinson is not a creative 10. Erinle and Hipkiss are both hard running centres, and Banahan a hard running winger. Monye is quick but not a flair player. And Cueto is dependable, but again not a flair player.

So, the entire back division, which has looked static so far, has now been deprived of its only creative member, in exchange for a decent club player I do not believe is up to it at international level.

If I was looking to make any change in the backline, which could be more understandable, would be to swap Tait/ Strettle for Banahan. Geraghty has done nothing to merit his place so far so possibly I could add to that change by moving Hipkiss into 12 and Tait into 13.

Johnson has picked the most conservative team he could think of. His answer to a conservative gameplan that wasn't working is picking players who excel at being conservative. I can see where he's coming from. England will fight hard and lose heroically. In the long term, however, maybe it might be better to change the gameplan to suit the team from the start...? Any England coaches think of that?

 

[g6mcg]

Johnson's reverted to older players...must be due to the great successes of the last few years. Erinle is going to be exposed at 12 defensively, and as others have said this team isn't going to be doing much passing. If they're planning to kick all day then why not put Goode (Alex, though I'd love to see Andy there in Edinburgh next year) at 15 so you have a good kicker there?

 

[shazbooger]

Analysing an English selection is pointless really.

 

[Olyy]

Thank f*** Cuetos at 15
However, i would've preferred cueto and monye on the wings, with Tait at FB, but it makes sense having him on the bench as he can cover centre and fb, with centre as his preferred position

Hopefully Shaw'll do well after having however long it is out of the game, we need him there for a bit of grunt, but i'd have liked Lawes to have been tested against Argentina, and found his way into the squad now.

Surprised to see Croft not starting, but i suppose they're putting Worsely in to just hit anything that moves with a ball, to try and stop any threat before it starts

Would've preferred Tait starting at centre, but like i said before, he makes sense on the bench being able to cover FB as well, in case Cueto gets munched
Not sure how i feel about Geraghty being dropped, him being on the pitch was a bit like having two 10s, but i don't think he played shockingly, and Erinle did seem alright when he came on against Aus

Nice to see Hartley in at hooker, if he can keep his temper down he could cement that spot for the 6N


NZ will still give us a spanking, but hopefully we can at least get a few points, and not have a whitewash

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

That's not a bad pack but the backline is very weak. Where's the cutting edge?

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Nov 18 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Thank f*** Cuetos at 15
However, i would've preferred cueto and monye on the wings, with Tait at FB, but it makes sense having him on the bench as he can cover centre and fb, with centre as his preferred position[/b]

Tait has been exposed more than once at GP level at fullback, plus he has publicly expressed his desire to play 13, not winger, and not fullback.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Nov 18 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Nov 18 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank f*** Cuetos at 15
However, i would've preferred cueto and monye on the wings, with Tait at FB, but it makes sense having him on the bench as he can cover centre and fb, with centre as his preferred position[/b]

Tait has been exposed more than once at GP level at fullback, plus he has publicly expressed his desire to play 13, not winger, and not fullback.
[/b][/quote]
He hasn't played at FB since joining Sale, i think, but England love playing him there, and he did reasonably well there before
Admittedly he might be out of practice there, but he'll still be better than Monye there

 

[orac54]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Nov 18 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Nov 18 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Nov 18 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank f*** Cuetos at 15
However, i would've preferred cueto and monye on the wings, with Tait at FB, but it makes sense having him on the bench as he can cover centre and fb, with centre as his preferred position[/b]

Tait has been exposed more than once at GP level at fullback, plus he has publicly expressed his desire to play 13, not winger, and not fullback.
[/b][/quote]
He hasn't played at FB since joining Sale, i think, but England love playing him there, and he did reasonably well there before
Admittedly he might be out of practice there, but he'll still be better than Monye there
[/b][/quote]

I'D be better than Monye there. MY MUM would, and she's got early onset Alzheimer's. In the absence of Armitage, it's got to be Cueto. He's too slow for wing, but can cover full-back OK.

Tait is a great 13. Hipkiss isn't. Erinle is quite a good 13, but not a 12. Geraghty is quite a good 12, but not if you give him scrappy ball that the forwards have been playing one-out with for 3 phases. Banahan is a refugee from lock, who happens to be able to run fast. But he can't catch high balls. Monye is a useless donkey with no ball skills whatsoever. Varndell and Cato would be better than either of them. There's no explaining any of those selections.

The pack is OK, with the exception of Johnson's big-mistake-that-he's-too-stubborn-to-own-up-to, Borthwick. Lawes and Shaw would be better there , lifting Lawes, Haskell and Moody in the lineout.

 

[candybum]

FYI

Mils Muliaina, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Dan Carter, Jimmy Cowan, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (captain), Adam Thomson, Tom Donnelly, Brad Thorn, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Corey Flynn/Aled de Malmanche, John Afoa, Anthony Boric, Jerome Kaino, Andy Ellis, Stephen Donald, Tamati Ellison.

http://tvnz.co.nz/all-blacks/franks-guildf...-starts-3158309

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SimonC @ Nov 18 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Nov 18 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Nov 18 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Nov 18 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank f*** Cuetos at 15
However, i would've preferred cueto and monye on the wings, with Tait at FB, but it makes sense having him on the bench as he can cover centre and fb, with centre as his preferred position[/b]

Tait has been exposed more than once at GP level at fullback, plus he has publicly expressed his desire to play 13, not winger, and not fullback.
[/b][/quote]
He hasn't played at FB since joining Sale, i think, but England love playing him there, and he did reasonably well there before
Admittedly he might be out of practice there, but he'll still be better than Monye there
[/b][/quote]
Varndell and Cato would be better than either of them.
[/b][/quote]
Varndell....
can't stand him, way too arrogant, and all he can do is run quick.
Monye at least has some rugby skill, as a wing.
Agree with Cato though, he's a fine player

 

[Bullitt]

As an Englishman... I hope New Zealand score over a hundred points.

And Dan Carter makes Wilkinson look like the 1 dimensional ***** he is.

And Richie McCaw rips off Rob Andrews/Martin Johnsons/Francis Barons head.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Nov 18 2009, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And Richie McCaw rips off Rob Andrews/<strike>Martin Johnsons</strike>/Francis Barons head.[/b]

 

[Bullitt]

f*** Martin Johnson... If he was the man if integrity he claimed to be he wouldn't have taken the job he's clearly not up to.

 

[Prestwick]

I keep telling people: Cato & Goode (Alex not Andy) are the way forward. Cato is a very very talented winger who is maturing with every game and is playing really well so far. Goode as well has switched between FB and fly-half and its obvious that when Glenda leaves Saracens to become a referee it's going to be Goode & HOOHAA calling the shots at FH.

And I haven't even gotten started with Adam Powell yet.

 

[jawmalawm24]

Whatever happened to Topsy Ojo? I just watched the game of the All Blacks vs England when he scored 2 trys and I thought after that performance he'd be in the team for ages but where has he gone?

 

[Bullitt]

He was never going to last... He's talented and there are far too many old boys/Bath/Leicester/Newcastle/Wasps players about.

 

[Infern0]

Johnson has bunged out the best he can I suppose.

I see New Zealand have called in the fresh firepower.

This is going to be sickening to watch, I don't know why they even bother with these tours right now, it's pointless.

England should have played

Australia
Argentina
Italy
France

at least then we have a slight chance of not being humiliated, Boxers who repeatedly get destroyed don't keep fighitng AAA fighters, and England needs to perform well against the minnows before taking on the big boys.

 

[Juggernaut]

What's the story with Strettle....is he injured?? out of form?? or what??