England vs New Zealand

[Nickdnz]

Look forward to seeing Erinle vs Nonu. I also look forward to seeing Banahan get embarrised. Wilkinson vs Carter I believe to be the biggest match up though. Should be good, and it looks like NZ has put there best side forward (minus Cory Jane). Good match, I'll stay up to watch this one, though god help the IRB if I should be disappointed like I was verse Italy.

A player that was brought up that I am also surprised is Topsy Ojo, he looked pretty damn good against the AB's. But meh, With Matt Banahan in Englands team, who needs a winger who can run fast, side step, catch high balls, kick and play effectively? Banahan can tackle hard and...tackle hard.

 

[C A Iversen]

I actually hope England put on a good display. Shame to see that they've got rid of some upcoming talent so quickly though and gone for the "old boys" thing a bit. Still, I feel for them a bit, well the supporters that is. They've had a rough run and rightfully have no idea what to expect from their team anymore.

Therefore, I still hope the AB's win, but would be good if England managed to create a bit and produce 2 or 3 exciting tries. Even if it's just for their fans.

 

[Infern0]

The talent just isn't there for England.

There are some reasonable young players, but to be fair most of them would not get anywhere near playing for the AB's.

I fully expect a blow-out this weekend, New Zealand are miles ahead in terms of class, and always play well against England.

30 point margin.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 19 2009, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The talent just isn't there for England.

There are some reasonable young players, but to be fair most of them would not get anywhere near playing for the AB's.[/b]

Wrong.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 19 2009, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Johnson has bunged out the best he can I suppose.

I see New Zealand have called in the fresh firepower.

This is going to be sickening to watch, I don't know why they even bother with these tours right now, it's pointless.

England should have played

Australia
Argentina
Italy
France

at least then we have a slight chance of not being humiliated, Boxers who repeatedly get destroyed don't keep fighitng AAA fighters, and England needs to perform well against the minnows before taking on the big boys.[/b]

Did you not watch our 6N match against France?
I'm not saying we'd beat them now, but if you're saying you have to beat all of those to be able to take on NZ, then 3/4 this year isn't too bad

 

[bates]

Also looking forward to the game.
An ez day to enjoy rugby.

I don't see England win but I do hope they can present some nice highlights.

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Nov 19 2009, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 19 2009, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The talent just isn't there for England.

There are some reasonable young players, but to be fair most of them would not get anywhere near playing for the AB's.[/b]

Wrong.
[/b][/quote]

Agreed again. There's this the "the AB's have the most awesome talent that can't be touched by new players in other teams" thing going on, then the same guys say horrible things in the next breath.

The truth is England are showing in the clubs that are diddling the South Africans that the talent is there. It's just never being formed into a dangerous, cohesive and workable team for England. Is it mismanagement? Is it poor selection? Is it not enough faith in the up and comers and giving them more than one chance? Is it just a reliance on the tried and trusted and "old"? Or maybe a mixture of all of the above?

I don't know, but I'll say again, I'd hate to lose to England (and it's not looking too likely right at the moment), but I do respect the raw, yet un-unified talent in the country.

 

[RC]

I don't know why, but i don't see England losing by a 30 point margin as some members are suggesting.
New Zealand are a good team, but they aren't the same team they were in 05.

 

[bristol-iain]

If they play anything close to the Argentina game it's could be a blowout. 30-40 points. Then again it can't get any worse than the Argentina "performance"


*hopes they do play worse*

 

[RC]

Nah, England just won't let that happen.

 

[Ozzay]

Borthwick needs to go in my opinion!

Start developing a team.

Personally i think, you all think your better than you really are.

 

[stormmaster1]

Since 03 england have always played as less than the some of their parts. Yes there have been poor selections, but players haven't played as a team, and individuals haven't often shown anything like their club form.

 

[Ozzay]

Surely though, players like Shaw should be forgotten.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Nov 19 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I actually hope England put on a good display. Shame to see that they've got rid of some upcoming talent so quickly though and gone for the "old boys" thing a bit. Still, I feel for them a bit, well the supporters that is. They've had a rough run and rightfully have no idea what to expect from their team anymore.

Therefore, I still hope the AB's win, but would be good if England managed to create a bit and produce 2 or 3 exciting tries. Even if it's just for their fans.[/b]

Maybe, just maybe, England will have the better of it in the first half, with the ABs sticking with the kicking game.

After half time, it should be all running from the ABs - they did it against Wales, joy to watch even if it wasn't perfect. Aus used the same switch in pace against England and Ireland, although they're not so powerful with ball in hand.

Will England's defence face down the onslaught and open up a few counter attacks? This is the risk the ABS are (thankfully) willing to run, and why SA don't enjoy playing rugby.

Big question and an interesting match ahead.

Geraghty would be perfect for those counter attacks, but hasn't had good kicking games + might have been a defensive weakness when the ABs start bullocking from deep.

 

[jawmalawm24]

I reckon England will play alot better than most people think. They always step it up when it comes to the All Blacks all thou they got a right hiding last year I still reckon they could surprise us and come pretty close. Beating England in Twickenham is always a battle for the All Blacks but if the forwards get some good ball for the backs we could see a good flowing game.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 19 2009, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Look forward to seeing Erinle vs Nonu. I also look forward to seeing Banahan get embarrised. Wilkinson vs Carter I believe to be the biggest match up though. Should be good, and it looks like NZ has put there best side forward (minus Cory Jane). Good match, I'll stay up to watch this one, though god help the IRB if I should be disappointed like I was verse Italy.

A player that was brought up that I am also surprised is Topsy Ojo, he looked pretty damn good against the AB's. But meh, With Matt Banahan in Englands team, who needs a winger who can run fast, side step, catch high balls, kick and play effectively? Banahan can tackle hard and...tackle hard.[/b]

Don't you worry, Banahan can show himself up. Since he's been with England all he's done is come off his wing and ram raid the opposition line and gets snaffled every time. For Bath he stays on the wing and then makes the most of any one on one which usually means he runs them over and makes good ground.

Ojo I think is either injured and/or considered by Johnno and <strike>Brian Smith</strike> John Wells surplus to requirements. Either way it is shocking, no?

I've seen the weather and its going to be heavy rain and swirling winds. Basically similar conditions to last weekend only with extra rain beforehand. The Twickenham pitch is good and has good drainage but 36 hours of rain might make running rugby very hard to come by. Expect ferocious winds to test both Carter and Wilkinson. If you can have a good flowing game whilst being underneath a storm front then quite frankly you can have the RWC, you've earnt it.

England did lose by a fair bit last year but, like the Italy game, scores can be deceiving and England did put pressure on the ABs last year and almost came away with a try which could have turned the game.

EDIT: Speaking of storms, Mark Cueto and Joe Worsley speak out after Josh Lewsey..er..speaks out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

But Cueto told Radio 5 live: "To see Josh writing some of that stuff in the paper was shocking. It's garbage."[/b]

and

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Worsley, who came on as a second-half replacement at Twickenham, joked that Lewsey "may have had altitude sickness or something" - a reference to his training for Everest.

"Josh is quite outspoken and always has been and just likes to get his opinion across," said Worsley.

"He's out of the frame now so he can say what he likes, but this is my team: the coaching staff, the fitness staff, the medical team and all the players. We are one and we stick up for each other."[/b]

Hang on, hang on...I could have sworn that the very same players (at least I presume they were anyway) were screaming their heads off at Ford & Wells during RWC2007 for being utterly cack at their job.

Either that or we can now finally see who was "pro-coach" and "anti-coach" during Englands campaign? Cueto and Worsley being some of those who backed the coaches and Lewsey, Catt and others who castigated them?

 

[C A Iversen]

Well if the odd english supporter is telling themselves that it'll be a 30-40 point blow-out to make a really feel-good situation when they only lose by 8 points or something, then I can understand that. If they really believe 30-40 points, then I'll be stunned if they are on the money.

As said above by jawmalawm24, England ALWAYS step it up for us and often have had mediocre performances going into the match. I'm not trying to say they have a huge chance, but there is one there. They are a rollercoaster of a team form-wise and thats sometimes a big weapon when they suddenly turn it on.

 

[MunsterMan]

England won't lose by 30-40 points, but they won't even come close to being in contention. It's a defensive side picked to keep the score down, and will most likely result in a 10-15 point win for the All Blacks (I'm thinking England 6 - 21 New Zealand) with England not coming close to scoring a try unless it comes from an AB f*** up. Of course the All Blacks could prove their class and put 30-40 points on a poor English side, but my money is on a shocking game with the Kiwis winning relatively easy.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Nov 19 2009, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well if the odd english supporter is telling themselves that it'll be a 30-40 point blow-out to make a really feel-good situation when they only lose by 8 points or something, then I can understand that. If they really believe 30-40 points, then I'll be stunned if they are on the money.

As said above by jawmalawm24, England ALWAYS step it up for us and often have had mediocre performances going into the match. I'm not trying to say they have a huge chance, but there is one there. They are a rollercoaster of a team form-wise and thats sometimes a big weapon when they suddenly turn it on.[/b]

I agree. However, in the professional era we've managed 2 wins and one draw against the All Blacks. The draw came in 1997 from the generation that was gearing up to be one of the greatest teams ever by 2002/3. The two wins came in 2002 and 2003 when that team was at its peak.

What does this prove? Nothing on the day. But it does show that in order to beat New Zealand, England need to be a bloody good team. At the moment we are not. The England that played towards the end of this year's 6 Nations looked like it might become a good team once more. But in reality, since 2005 England have been a shockingly awful side with a few blips of success coming in RWC 07 and 6N 09. Once more, we have returned to this phase... if you exclude the odd performance here and there, England 2005-9 has been the worst period of English rugby in my lifetime. And unlike the Celtic teams, we do not have a history of staging major upsets when up against hated opposition.

My prediction is that England will compete hard, but the best the fans can hope for is to be within 10 points.

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Nov 20 2009, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Nov 19 2009, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well if the odd english supporter is telling themselves that it'll be a 30-40 point blow-out to make a really feel-good situation when they only lose by 8 points or something, then I can understand that. If they really believe 30-40 points, then I'll be stunned if they are on the money.

As said above by jawmalawm24, England ALWAYS step it up for us and often have had mediocre performances going into the match. I'm not trying to say they have a huge chance, but there is one there. They are a rollercoaster of a team form-wise and thats sometimes a big weapon when they suddenly turn it on.[/b]

I agree. However, in the professional era we've managed 2 wins and one draw against the All Blacks. The draw came in 1997 from the generation that was gearing up to be one of the greatest teams ever by 2002/3. The two wins came in 2002 and 2003 when that team was at its peak.

What does this prove? Nothing on the day. But it does show that in order to beat New Zealand, England need to be a bloody good team. At the moment we are not. The England that played towards the end of this year's 6 Nations looked like it might become a good team once more. But in reality, since 2005 England have been a shockingly awful side with a few blips of success coming in RWC 07 and 6N 09. Once more, we have returned to this phase... if you exclude the odd performance here and there, England 2005-9 has been the worst period of English rugby in my lifetime. And unlike the Celtic teams, we do not have a history of staging major upsets when up against hated opposition.

My prediction is that England will compete hard, but the best the fans can hope for is to be within 10 points.
[/b][/quote]

Well, thats hard to argue, with. One point though, is the All Blacks are not as good as they have been. They have 2/3rds of an extremely good team, but over the last 2 years they haven't been able to deliver crisp ball to their backs and the passing skills have been periodically shocking. The other 1/3 (it can vary from game to game who these fools are) are prone to brain explosions that have cost us dearly.

Our forwards are as strong as ever, but our backs are so controlled by the aerial ping-pong tactics which todays rules seem to require that they haven't really learned to run a backline.

I thought seeing the League guys play over there recently that backline on backline, the AB's would get killed by the kiwis in the running/passing aspect that used to be an All Black strength.

If we play well, England will have an huge uphill battle, thats true. Still, I've a feeling that England have it in them to keep us under pressure (within 10 pts) for the middle 40 minutes. Anything besides that will take some good fortune, but England are long overdue to step up.

The biggest thing stopping that is the England personnel as you alluded to.