England vs Fiji 26th August 23

[TommiG88]

Earl isn't an 8, so that experiment is over, glad we have an 8 in the squad….

 

[AlRums]

Congratulations Fiji. Well deserved.

Would love to be in Suva tonight!

Wales should be getting worried

 

[AlRums]

Wow really?

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[SG59_]

And South Africa

Poor excuse imo

Yeah, but they probably don't suffer the English upper class arrogance.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Topsy Ojo reckons England have put months into this style of play...

 

[Smurfy]

A 2007 player revolt is needed but England haven't even nearly got the calibre of men in that squad. I remember the outlook being similarly dire back then and we had men like wilko, Robinson, dallaglio, Shaw and on and on… I see a fearful team with a complete lack of leaders.

To be honest I think you're deluding yourself if you believe that the coach is the only problem. Imo quite a few of the players are nowhere near good enough, and a lot of them are being judged on performances in the Gallagher Premiership, whose quality (as opposed to entertainment value) has dropped alarmingly in the past few seasons. Others , like Tuilagi, Ford, Vunipola, Cole, Youngs, Care and others are well past their sell by dates and seem to be selected on their 2019 form, which of course is damning evidence of the coach's incompetence. Undoubtedly a proven outstanding coach like Farrell could improve them quite a bit, but even he can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

You get what you deserve at this level.

 

[BrokenWing]

If the RFU didn't have a break clause for poor performance in Borthwicks contact, everyone involved in writing that contract should be fired.

They probably should anyway tbh but especially in that case.

You mean the same people who gave Eddie a contract extension at an incredibly inopportune time?

 

[j-dawg]

To be honest I think you're deluding yourself if you believe that the coach is the only problem. Imo quite a few of the players are nowhere near good enough, and a lot of them are being judged on performances in the Gallagher Premiership, whose quality (as opposed to entertainment value) has dropped alarmingly in the past few seasons. Others , like Tuilagi, Ford, Vunipola, Cole, Youngs, Care and others are well past their sell by dates and seem to be selected on their 2019 form, which of course is damning evidence of the coach's incompetence. Undoubtedly a proven outstanding coach like Farrell could improve them quite a bit, but even he can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

I just think we're crap, mate

 

[McTallshort]

Yeah, but they probably don't suffer the English upper class arrogance.

Yeah Afrikaans are never arrogant..

 

[miccloarch]

Probably repeating what others have said but two years as head coach in the premiership isn't enough to prepare you for the England job. Jones was playing a dangerous game and got sacked for it, but England would've been a lot closer to NZ and RSA right now if he were still in charge.

Historic day for Fiji.

 

[SG59_]

Yeah Afrikaans are never arrogant..

yeah, but if we're talking on a scale of one to ten, we all know the English can be right up there at times. We know it too, which is an odd thing. There is more to it of course. The leagues decline is probably starting to or has kicked in.

I follow the ice hockey and I've seen similar results there too.

 

[Jimbo]

To be honest I think you're deluding yourself if you believe that the coach is the only problem. Imo quite a few of the players are nowhere near good enough, and a lot of them are being judged on performances in the Gallagher Premiership, whose quality (as opposed to entertainment value) has dropped alarmingly in the past few seasons. Others , like Tuilagi, Ford, Vunipola, Cole, Youngs, Care and others are well past their sell by dates and seem to be selected on their 2019 form, which of course is damning evidence of the coach's incompetence. Undoubtedly a proven outstanding coach like Farrell could improve them quite a bit, but even he can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Seems like a half truth to me, England without a doubt have players passed their best, I wouldn't expect them to be beating Ireland, SA, France who all have something like golden generations, I would however expect us to be beating most others on home soil or at least keeping it close, with the players available, I refuse to believe it's a lack of quality issue currently stopping that.
It seems like a bit of a contradiction to say it's not all on the coach but players past their best being selected on previous form, unless they are legitimately the best right here right now that can only lay at the coaches feet, it's them making those selections.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You mean the same people who gave Eddie a contract extension at an incredibly inopportune time?

Yeah, the RFU management are killing the game in England with their incompetence.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah, but they probably don't suffer the English upper class arrogance.

Well, it's many a day I've travelled a hundred miles or more
But excluding South Africans from arrogance, sure I never saw before

 

[ncurd]

Well there we have it missed the game but lost out never lost to tier 2 status. God we suck...

How bad was it?

 

[Crash Hamster]

Borthwick admits England's defence has got worse...

 

[Reiser99]

This is a tight group losing together.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I saw South Africa practice double tackles for an hour once. Literally they just played 10 on 10, started with a punt from the goal-line. If they missed a double tackle the drill was considered a failure. Watch their defense, every ball carrier is doubled up. These things are addressable.

 

[Crash Hamster]

"It's very clear what we need to do..."

But we're not actually going to do it.