England Six Nations Squad 2012

[Peat]

Why has Launchbury been called up?!

I mean, he's a decent enough player but he's only been back for Wasps for a week or two, after a lay off through injury!
Attwood has trained with England before, and Garvey for the Saxons - both make a lot more sense than Launchbury.

Because none of the three after going to be playing, so they might as well give Launchbury the experience of training with the senior squad. I do not agree with this, but its the clearly stated logic.

 

[Saintjay]

Prehaps it is just me but his conduct deserves punishment at work. Numerous jobs have standards of behaviour that can involve you losing your job if convicted of a criminal offence. Nurses, teachers, security work just being a few of these. If a teacher was found guilty of a criminal offence such as two cases of drunk and disorderly they would be sacked.

Care has a high profile job and is expected to sent standards and act as a role model. Would you be ok with the same behaviour from members of parliment, teachers, police officers etc? No of course not, so why then should it be ok for Danny Care.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Because none of the three after going to be playing, so they might as well give Launchbury the experience of training with the senior squad. I do not agree with this, but its the clearly stated logic.

Makes sense, I suppose, but surely Attwood is ahead of him in the pecking order, so should get more exerience.
What's the point of having a couple of backups with very little experience, rather than one backup who has a lot and is ready to go.

RFU logic.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Launchbury....yeah odd.as lock cover? Any lock partnership with him in will be underpowered. He's a good 6, but we have plenty of those.

 

[Peat]

Makes sense, I suppose, but surely Attwood is ahead of him in the pecking order, so should get more exerience.
What's the point of having a couple of backups with very little experience, rather than one backup who has a lot and is ready to go.

RFU logic.

My guess - Attwood's done the hang around the senior squad, hold tackle bags, see how its done thing. Hell, he's played. He won't gain much from it. Launchbury hasn't, and will gain a lot. Also, Bath might want Attwood more for the whatsitsface semi-final, and Lancaster might be being nice. Not sure whether I agree, but ain't that bothered, as if they're not going to play, it really doesn't make a huge amount of odds who's there.

Launchbury....yeah odd.as lock cover? Any lock partnership with him in will be underpowered. He's a good 6, but we have plenty of those.

Launchbury played lock for the U20s and looked very good there, and according to the RFU site is the exact same height and weight as Botha, and heavier than both Parling and Lawes, so I am perfectly happy for England to plan his future at lock.

Care has a high profile job and is expected to sent standards and act as a role model. Would you be ok with the same behaviour from members of parliment, teachers, police officers etc? No of course not, so why then should it be ok for Danny Care.

I have zero problem with MPs, teachers and police officers getting caught short on a night out and needing to relieve themselves somewhere less than strictly legal. Actually maybe with MPs, as it's their own bloody fault that public loos are as rare as hen's teeth.

 

[gingergenius]

Launchbury? I can't say I've seen too much of him but I thought he was a back row... anyone who watches Wasps more regularly care to fill me in?

This in mind, what's the second row pecking order?

Botha and Parling would seem to be the obvious choices - I have my doubts about Botha's ability but he seems to be one of those late maturing players, like Nick Easter. Parling really impressed me against Wales, one of our best forwards in that game.

Then, there's Attwood who I think is a good option as big, tough, carrying lock. Garvey also impresses every now and again for Irish and might be worth a shout.
Of lineout specialists, Robson has had a good season with Quins, and there's always Palmer, who I would pension off but is still a decent player.

Where does Launchbury fit in to this? As I said before, I've never really watched him but he must have been doing mighty well to have impressed in an abysmal Wasps side.

At 9, is there nobody knocking at the door before Karl Dickson? I'm coming with a lot of bias here, but having watched Saracens a lot this season I've been really impressed with Spencer. I don't think he'll ever be a world class 9, but he reminds me of Farrell in having a maturity way beyond his years. He hasn't got too much premiership experience, but I'd still be pressed to think of a scrummie in the Prem with a better kicking game and general game management. With all our scrum half issues atm, I'd suggest he might be an option if things get even worse than they are now.

 

[j'nuh]

My guess - Attwood's done the hang around the senior squad, hold tackle bags, see how its done thing. Hell, he's played. He won't gain much from it. Launchbury hasn't, and will gain a lot. Also, Bath might want Attwood more for the whatsitsface semi-final, and Lancaster might be being nice. Not sure whether I agree, but ain't that bothered, as if they're not going to play, it really doesn't make a huge amount of odds who's there.

On the other hand, an injury to any of Palmer, Botha or Parling would see Launchsbury or Croft involved as the next-in-line. After strong performances by Garvey and Robson for the saxons, it seems a little odd to take this risk.

EDIT: Actually, I might be losing track of who is in the wider squad. Isn't Attwood already involved in the England set-up as injury cover? (So he now moves up to the main squad as a replacement for Lawes and Lancaster then picks 3 for his 22 out of Attwood, Parling, Palmer and Botha.) If this is the case, then Launchsbury will only play any real part if there's an injury to two of our locks and with only 2 games left to go, I guess it's reasonable to reckon this won't happen (and if it does, I reckon Lancaster might even use Croft as an emergency replacement there). So I guess Launchsbury makes sense when you think of it like that. Good call I guess.

 

[Peat]

At 9, I don't think the injury call-up's going to play, and Spencer's being kept with the U20s to play rather than being given experience - elsewise, yes, I've have liked to have seen Spencer involved. I might have even advanced the case of Spencer for the full-team bench, but he did miss a few tackles against Scotland A of the sort which leaves me untrusting.

At lock, j'nuh, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a further injury seeing another man vaulted straight into the squad and ahead of Launchbury. But Attwood would have returned to the Saxons after the injured player returned to the best of my knowledge; might be wrong there, we'll see. If he is in there, why he isn't playing I really don't get.

GG - Launchbury has been playing back-row for Wasps but has played a lot at lock and I think his future is there. Looked very assured and ferocious in the early part of the season before he got injured. At the moment I'd have him behind every name you mentioned except possibly Robson, who I'm beginning to think is simply too light at the scrum. But given a year, he will really be in contention, along with Kruis and possibly Matthews.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I didn't think Spencer was in the U20s?

 

[j'nuh]

I didn't think Spencer was in the U20s?

True, Robson is starting most matches afaik.

 

[Peat]

Spencer has generally been kept back by Saracens, but he is U20 eligible and was named in the initial England U20 squad for the tournament and the Italy game (before it got postponed)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9156694/Stuart-Lancaster-reveals-his-blueprint-which-he-hopes-will-take-England-to-World-Cup-glory-in-2015.html

Lancaster's enthusiasm is infectious.
I really hope he gets the job.

Also good to see some of the names he wants involved in the squad in the future (especially Henry Thomas ) - Presumably Farrell Snr. has been pressing Joel Tomkins case to him

 

[gingergenius]

Agree on that article Olyy, the more I hear the more I like the guy. Someone like Wayne Smith (or whoever coaches the Aussie backline) would really put the icing on the cake in terms of coaching, perhaps Dave Ellis if they need a specialist defence coach and they can't hold on to Farrell.

That stuff about the 'pyramid of success' sounds very Saracens - I'd love to know who's behind it because in Sarries' case it makes a decent team on paper very much more successful than they should be - toughness, togetherness, honesty, hard work - basically the Saracens ethos.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9156694/Stuart-Lancaster-reveals-his-blueprint-which-he-hopes-will-take-England-to-World-Cup-glory-in-2015.html

Lancaster's enthusiasm is infectious.
I really hope he gets the job.

Also good to see some of the names he wants involved in the squad in the future (especially Henry Thomas ) - Presumably Farrell Snr. has been pressing Joel Tomkins case to him

Mega bump.

I blame you Olyy, It's good to hear that Lancaster talk about youth back then with the likes of thomas he has gone on to get loads of England caps since then 4 years ago................

This is the official England Squad Announcement thread for the Six Nations.

Please keep all topics regarding the announcement in this thread.

This post will be updated once the squad has been announced, with the team list...

EDITED (1pm)

Senior EPS Squad:

FORWARDS (18)

Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Matt Stevens (Saracens)
Rob Webber (London Wasps)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

BACKS (14)
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Charlie Hodgson (Saracens)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Also note:
• Captain will not be named until after the first week of training
• England will train at Stuart Lancaster's home club, West Park

WOW To think Calum clark has pretty much been in Lancaster England for 4 years (Bar 1) and has only had 1 cap good stuff Stu.

Goes on about inexperienced where he 12 of his 31 players in his first squad 4 Years ago. He also had Ashton, Clark, Strettle, Corbs and Dickson in his extended squad.

Also did anyone see Joseph's try v Quins at weekend?

Really want to see 12. Manu 13. Joseph as soon as possible.

WoW nearly 4 years and we haven't seen this.

tbf on Lancaster, he hasn't announced any matchday 22s yet, and he hasn't even had a training session with the England players yet, so it's a bit premature to be accusing him of bad selection policy. He has very little in the way of quality 7s to choose from with Wood injured (though he should have called up Seymour imo), and he could still yet play 6. Robshaw 7. Clark 8. Morgan/Narraway 13. Trinder until Wood and Tuilagi are available, which wouldn't be awful against Scotland and Italy. Let's not write him off before his first game!

Times have changes

 

[Peat]

Goes on about inexperienced where he 12 of his 31 players in his first squad 4 Years ago. He also had Ashton, Clark, Strettle, Corbs and Dickson in his extended squad.

13. Parling was called up as an injury replacement from the Saxons. Launchbury, Goode, Joseph and May were all in the Saxons as well.

Curse you. Nearly finished writing an article about this sort of thing, then you go and spoil it by telling everyone.

 

[Patchey]

Deacon was in his first EPS? Blimey!

A bit depressing looking back on all f this tbh.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

13. Parling was called up as an injury replacement from the Saxons. Launchbury, Goode, Joseph and May were all in the Saxons as well.

Curse you. Nearly finished writing an article about this sort of thing, then you go and spoil it by telling everyone.

Oh yeah forgot Parling.

Lol Its very interesting, look forward to reading your view.

Makes you notice how far forward he has taken England (Not very).

 

[Peat]

Deacon was only in because Lancaster could only make so many changes to the WC squad and since Deacon was injured for the whole tournament, he could include him and then call up another player as an injury replacement and get an extra change.