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England Saxons to tour South Africa in June

I am not going to add anything to this debate other than to say am flabber I gast...........
 
Every Time Ref said:
The least we can say I think is that he needs someone to really wrestle that shirt from him, and I think that's a great thing.

Also, great backup and bench player to have, who has proved he's more than capable at the top level
Click to expand...

That's more than I'd say and I'm waiting to see how he goes vs Australia in Australia before I'd upgrade to that position.
 
SA A squad for Saxons:



[TABLE="width: 605"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Name
[/TD]
[TD]Position
[/TD]
[TD]Province / Franchise
[/TD]
[TD]Test Caps
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]Lukhanyo Am
[/TD]
[TD]Centre / Wing
[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks / Southern Kings
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]Francois Brummer
[/TD]
[TD]Flyhalf / Fullback
[/TD]
[TD]Steval Pumas / Vodacom Bulls
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]Nizaam Carr
[/TD]
[TD]Flank
[/TD]
[TD]DHL Stormers
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4
[/TD]
[TD]Jean-Luc du Preez
[/TD]
[TD]Flank
[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5
[/TD]
[TD]Thomas du Toit
[/TD]
[TD]Prop
[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6
[/TD]
[TD]Lizo Gqoboka
[/TD]
[TD]Prop
[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7
[/TD]
[TD]Travis Ismaiel
[/TD]
[TD]Wing
[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8
[/TD]
[TD]Ntando Kebe
[/TD]
[TD]Scrumhalf
[/TD]
[TD]Border Bulldogs / Southern Kings
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9
[/TD]
[TD]Vincent Koch
[/TD]
[TD]Prop
[/TD]
[TD]Steval Pumas / DHL Stormers
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10
[/TD]
[TD]Edgar Marutlulle
[/TD]
[TD]Hooker
[/TD]
[TD]Southern Kings
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11
[/TD]
[TD]Malcolm Marx
[/TD]
[TD]Hooker
[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12
[/TD]
[TD]Howard Mnisi
[/TD]
[TD]Centre
[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13
[/TD]
[TD]Oupa Mohoje
[/TD]
[TD]Flank
[/TD]
[TD]Toyota Cheetahs
[/TD]
[TD]8
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14
[/TD]
[TD]Franco Mostert
[/TD]
[TD]Lock
[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15
[/TD]
[TD]Coenie Oosthuizen
[/TD]
[TD]Prop
[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks
[/TD]
[TD]23
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16
[/TD]
[TD]Sergeal Petersen
[/TD]
[TD]Wing
[/TD]
[TD]Toyota Cheetahs
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17
[/TD]
[TD]JD Schickerling
[/TD]
[TD]Lock
[/TD]
[TD]DHL Stormers
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18
[/TD]
[TD]Courtnall Skosan
[/TD]
[TD]Wing
[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19
[/TD]
[TD]RG Snyman
[/TD]
[TD]Lock
[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20
[/TD]
[TD]Marcel van der Merwe
[/TD]
[TD]Prop
[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls
[/TD]
[TD]7
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21
[/TD]
[TD]Piet van Zyl
[/TD]
[TD]Scrumhalf
[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22
[/TD]
[TD]Francois Venter
[/TD]
[TD]Centre
[/TD]
[TD]Toyota Cheetahs
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23
[/TD]
[TD]Leolin Zas
[/TD]
[TD]Wing
[/TD]
[TD]DHL Stormers
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
SA 'A' Team Management:
Johan Ackermann – Head Coach
Chumani Booi – Assistant Coach
Abe Davids – Assistant Coach
Thulani Nteta – Conditioning Coach
Dr Rob Collins – Team Doctor
Karabo Morokane – Physiotherapist
Willem Oliphant – Team Manager
 
Looks stronger than I was expecting... Should be a great series in its own right.
 
Both matches will be televised for those of you who wanted to know. It will be broadcasted by Supersport here locally, so I guess it will be on Sky Sports in the UK as they are affiliates.
 
saulan said:
SA A squad for Saxons:



[TABLE="width: 605"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Position[/TD]
[TD]Province / Franchise[/TD]
[TD]Test Caps[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Lukhanyo Am[/TD]
[TD]Centre / Wing[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks / Southern Kings[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Francois Brummer[/TD]
[TD]Flyhalf / Fullback[/TD]
[TD]Steval Pumas / Vodacom Bulls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Nizaam Carr[/TD]
[TD]Flank[/TD]
[TD]DHL Stormers[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Jean-Luc du Preez[/TD]
[TD]Flank[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Thomas du Toit[/TD]
[TD]Prop[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Lizo Gqoboka[/TD]
[TD]Prop[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Travis Ismaiel[/TD]
[TD]Wing[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Ntando Kebe[/TD]
[TD]Scrumhalf[/TD]
[TD]Border Bulldogs / Southern Kings[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Vincent Koch[/TD]
[TD]Prop[/TD]
[TD]Steval Pumas / DHL Stormers[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Edgar Marutlulle[/TD]
[TD]Hooker[/TD]
[TD]Southern Kings[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Malcolm Marx[/TD]
[TD]Hooker[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Howard Mnisi[/TD]
[TD]Centre[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Oupa Mohoje[/TD]
[TD]Flank[/TD]
[TD]Toyota Cheetahs[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Franco Mostert[/TD]
[TD]Lock[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Coenie Oosthuizen[/TD]
[TD]Prop[/TD]
[TD]Cell C Sharks[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Sergeal Petersen[/TD]
[TD]Wing[/TD]
[TD]Toyota Cheetahs[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]JD Schickerling[/TD]
[TD]Lock[/TD]
[TD]DHL Stormers[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Courtnall Skosan[/TD]
[TD]Wing[/TD]
[TD]Emirates Lions[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]RG Snyman[/TD]
[TD]Lock[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Marcel van der Merwe[/TD]
[TD]Prop[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]Piet van Zyl[/TD]
[TD]Scrumhalf[/TD]
[TD]Vodacom Bulls[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Francois Venter[/TD]
[TD]Centre[/TD]
[TD]Toyota Cheetahs[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]Leolin Zas[/TD]
[TD]Wing[/TD]
[TD]DHL Stormers[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
SA 'A' Team Management:
Johan Ackermann – Head Coach
Chumani Booi – Assistant Coach
Abe Davids – Assistant Coach
Thulani Nteta – Conditioning Coach
Dr Rob Collins – Team Doctor
Karabo Morokane – Physiotherapist
Willem Oliphant – Team Manager
Click to expand...

About 2/3rds fringe players and 1/3 'development'. Stronger than I'd have thought and a huge positive IMO is Ackermann taking charge. I hope this is an indication that SARU is grooming him to take over from Coetzee. It'd be good to have a continguency plan for once.

Only one player to cover 10 and fullback though. Coetzee has indicated that 4 players from the Bok team will drop into this side. That team has 6 loose forwards so I'd expect we can be all but sure that Notshe will play for the SA 'A' side. I am also expecting Coetzee to keep 'specialists' beyond the Bok matchday 23 so think we'll see all 3 hookers, scrumhalves and flyhalves retained though I am hoping to see April get gametime here as I heard on the radio that Jantjies says they are positive that he might still be ready for Ireland.

I expect;

1 Thomas du Toit (exciting prospect- I just hope Ackermann plays him at loosehead and not force him out of position like the Sharks are doing with him and Oosthuizen)
2 Malcolm Marx (him and Marutlule both I rate higher than our '1st' team hookers so no drop in class here)
3 Vincent Koch (rounding out a well balanced front row)
4 RG Snyman
5 Franco Mostert (something of an unknown but in superb form lock combination)
6 Oupa Mohoje
7 jean-Luc du Preez
8 Nizaam Carr (our backrow even should Notshe come into the fold lacks an out-and-out fetcher though unless Jaco Kriel drops as well though he really should play for the Bokke. Quality enough though Mohoje and Carr aren't in their 2014 form)
9 Piet van Zyl (I've never heard of Kebe before, might as well give him a go, its not like Van Zyl is world class. 9 is strangely something of a problem area for SA at present)
10 Garth April (I'm hoping he drops because I don' want him guiding the Bokke with zero experience though he might be one to step up whereas I can't see Brummer do so. Not that we need much more depth at 10 beyond Pollard, Lambie, Jantjies, Du Preez, Goosen and Boshoff. On that, why not bring in Goosen or Boshoff here since we are short after injuries..)
11 Courtnall Skosan (has been in superb form, maybe even a tad unlucky not to make the Bokke?)
12 Howard Mnisi
13 Francois Venter
14 Sergeal Petersen
15 Leolin Zas

To sum up I feel the tight 5 should be quality, the backrow is a little off form, and a little one dimensional. the halves aren't inspiring confidence and are IMO this team's biggest weakness. We are lightweight but electric out wide. I suppose Kolbe is with the 7s tem that he is not included? I know Senatla has dedicated this year to Rio.

I agree we shouldn't be too reliant on our overseas based players.

I think Andre Esterhuizen can feel unlucky not to have made it for the no.12 shirt. The big question is where is Armand van der Merwe? Hell, I'd have him wearing the no.16 jersey for the Bokke!
 
Last edited:
TRF_stormer2010 said:
I expect;

1 Thomas du Toit (exciting prospect- I just hope Ackermann plays him at loosehead and not force him out of position like the Sharks are doing with him and Oosthuizen)
2 Malcolm Marx (him and Marutlule both I rate higher than our '1st' team hookers so no drop in class here)
3 Vincent Koch (rounding out a well balanced front row)
4 RG Snyman
5 Franco Mostert (something of an unknown but in superb form lock combination)
6 Oupa Mohoje
7 jean-Luc du Preez
8 Nizaam Carr (our backrow even should Notshe come into the fold lacks an out-and-out fetcher though unless Jaco Kriel drops as well though he really should play for the Bokke. Quality enough though Mohoje and Carr aren't in their 2014 form)
9 Piet van Zyl (I've never heard of Kebe before, might as well give him a go, its not like Van Zyl is world class. 9 is strangely something of a problem area for SA at present)
10 Garth April (I'm hoping he drops because I don' want him guiding the Bokke with zero experience though he might be one to step up whereas I can't see Brummer do so. Not that we need much more depth at 10 beyond Pollard, Lambie, Jantjies, Du Preez, Goosen and Boshoff. On that, why not bring in Goosen or Boshoff here since we are short after injuries..)
11 Courtnall Skosan (has been in superb form, maybe even a tad unlucky not to make the Bokke?)
12 Howard Mnisi
13 Francois Venter
14 Sergeal Petersen
15 Leolin Zas
Click to expand...

V (Team i expect)
1) Hepburn
2) Taylor
3) Brookes
4) Lees
5) attwood
6) Ewers
7) Kvesic
8) Armond
9) Robson
10) Cips
11) Wade
12) Hill
13) Thompkins
14) roko
15) Haley

16) McGuigan
17) Harrison
18) JCW
19) Ewels
20) Jones
21) Young
22) Devoto
23) Lewington

Could be a pretty good series.
 
You think Tompkins will start at 13?
Surely James would, as he's first choice for his club?
I mean Sam has started twice as many games this season than Tompkins has since his debut 3 years ago.

Or even Devoto (as risky as it is having no 10 cover from the bench).
 
James would also have a club link with Cipriani. Thinking about it Hill plays similarly to Tuitupou as well
 
TRF_Olyy said:
You think Tompkins will start at 13?
Surely James would, as he's first choice for his club?
I mean Sam has started twice as many games this season than Tompkins has since his debut 3 years ago.

Or even Devoto (as risky as it is having no 10 cover from the bench).
Click to expand...

I think there is a good chance,

although i will admit i forgot about James completely.
 
Tigs Man said:
V (Team i expect)
6) Ewers
7) Kvesic
8) Armond

Would you consider swapping Ewers and Armand? (Arman 6, Ewers 8) I know that for Chiefs Baxter has opted to put Armand as an 8 rather than Ewers but I think Ewers, being as giant as he is, is better suited to the role. Just a thought. Also, that's a full foreign back row (Kvesic German, Armand and Ewers Zimbabwe). Not so much a complaint as an observation, but it would be good to see more English players coming through.
Click to expand...
 
Calling Kvesic foreign because he was born in Germany is, uhm...

very wrong, I guess.
 
Regarding all the comments about Nowell not being fast enough for an international winger, I don't think that Savea's ever been exceptionally fast yet he's attributed with being the best winger in the world. It's just a thought and maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen him get caught by other wingers, fullbacks and centres on a few occasions, so if he can be the best in the world with not much pace, why can't Nowell at least compete on the international stage as a winger.

- - - Updated - - -

TRF_Peat said:
Calling Kvesic foreign because he was born in Germany is, uhm...

very wrong, I guess.
Click to expand...

It wasn't intended in a disrespectful way, I think he should be starting at 7 for England. I don't have an issue with players born in other countries playing for England, but we are developing a reputation for it now with the likes of the Vunipola bros, Te'o coming in, Hughes soon to be coming in, Harrison and Hartley both Kiwis, the list goes on. I just think it speaks volumes of our age group system if so many of our players are from other countries. Again, just a thought.
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
Regarding all the comments about Nowell not being fast enough for an international winger, I don't think that Savea's ever been exceptionally fast yet he's attributed with being the best winger in the world. It's just a thought and maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen him get caught by other wingers, fullbacks and centres on a few occasions, so if he can be the best in the world with not much pace, why can't Nowell at least compete on the international stage as a winger.

- - - Updated - - -



It wasn't intended in a disrespectful way, I think he should be starting at 7 for England. I don't have an issue with players born in other countries playing for England, but we are developing a reputation for it now with the likes of the Vunipola bros, Te'o coming in, Hughes soon to be coming in, Harrison and Hartley both Kiwis, the list goes on. I just think it speaks volumes of our age group system if so many of our players are from other countries. Again, just a thought.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Kev born in Germany because his dad (parents?) serving on an army base there at the time? That's hardly a poach.

The Vunipolas came through our age group system. Think Hartley was there for a fair bit of it too, Harrison not quite so much, but a huge amount of his development would have been in England.
 

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