England Saxons to tour South Africa in June

[Duck a l'Orange]

Everything you say is true and I'm not putting money on it, but it seems a possibility to me; I certainly don't know why they brought in Devoto if they weren't thinking of Slade playing more at 10.

I don't see why they bought in Devoto full stop... Still seems mad to me. Whitten, Slade, Hill, Devoto, Campagnaro, all vying for two spots. It looks like poor management to me tbh.

The best solution I can think of is to send Devoto and Slade to Newcastle Falcons, which seems pretty flawless to me. Seriously though, I can't see how they're going to give all five players enough game time to keep them happy, especially while maintaining selection continuity. Even with Slade and Campagnaro (possibly one more) away during international periods that midfield still looks cramped.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Everything you say is true and I'm not putting money on it, but it seems a possibility to me; I certainly don't know why they brought in Devoto if they weren't thinking of Slade playing more at 10.

It is an odd one. The signing was at the beginning of the season so I suppose Baxter hadn't anticipated Steenson's form this season and so thought switching Slade to 10 would be an easier call. Or maybe Baxter sees Devoto as a 15 and wants him to replace Dollman? It would be a weird and I think a poor decision but possible.

 

[Which Tyler]

It is an odd one. The signing was at the beginning of the season so I suppose Baxter hadn't anticipated Steenson's form this season and so thought switching Slade to 10 would be an easier call. Or maybe Baxter sees Devoto as a 15 and wants him to replace Dollman? It would be a weird and I think a poor decision but possible.

Not if he's actually watched Devoto at 15 it isn't.
Devoto is a 12/13 who can step into 10 on occasion. You wouldn't want to start him there excepting an injury crisis; and you wouldn't want him playing at FB at all excepting an injury crisis.
However, he's a very good 12/13; and yes, IMO, better than Hill and Whitten.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Not if he's actually watched Devoto at 15 it isn't.
Devoto is a 12/13 who can step into 10 on occasion. You wouldn't want to start him there excepting an injury crisis; and you wouldn't want him playing at FB at all excepting an injury crisis.
However, he's a very good 12/13; and yes, IMO, better than Hill and Whitten.

I personally don't think he's better than hill or whiten but I guess the main point of the issue is you don't employee 3 top draw 12s at one club without two of them being unhappy.

Maybe he's letter go of whiten longer term to have more English players and sees Hill as a 12 only, Slade as 13 or 10, campaignero as 13 or wing and devoto as a 12 13 cover?

That's the correct amount of centres really.

 

[Raggs]

I think you can get away with 2 depth of good players in each position, however centres is a bit different, there it's more a case of 3 into 2 in my mind. With Devoto, Whitten, Hill, Campagnaro and Slade there's definitely too many, even if Slade goes to 10 they're surely going to lose someone. That it's often EQP vs EQP has a further negative impact, and obviously 6N competitors means weakness during 6N periods. 2 EQP and 1 Non 6N player would seem like a perfect balance to me, especially if the EQP were mostly focused on 12 and 13, rather than 2 12s.

Devoto's mum moved to Exeter though, so there's half a chance that had a very large influence in his decision.

 

[Which Tyler]

Agreed; you want 3 quality (who rotate and all get ~20 starts a year) and a couple of backups for centre

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think you can get away with 2 depth of good players in each position, however centres is a bit different, there it's more a case of 3 into 2 in my mind. With Devoto, Whitten, Hill, Campagnaro and Slade there's definitely too many, even if Slade goes to 10 they're surely going to lose someone. That it's often EQP vs EQP has a further negative impact, and obviously 6N competitors means weakness during 6N periods. 2 EQP and 1 Non 6N player would seem like a perfect balance to me, especially if the EQP were mostly focused on 12 and 13, rather than 2 12s.

Devoto's mum moved to Exeter though, so there's half a chance that had a very large influence in his decision.

I can't imagine Campagnaro staying beyond his contract with Exeter with the lack of game he's getting as well as how much I'm sure some clubs would offer him. And Whitten is getting on a bit age wise, so I guess Baxter's preparing for that. Although by the time Whitten retires or seriously drops in form, Steeno will have or will be beginning to do the same so Slade will be the 1st choice 10, with Hill 12 and Devoto 13. I would guess that's what he's building towards. And with Cheifs' style of play having 3 12s making up your mid field does actually make sense.

 

[Peat]

Whitten's only 28. Planning for his old age is a wee bit premature.

I've a huge amount of time for Ian Whitten as a player and he's a man making the absolute most of everything he has, but if Devoto can't be better than him something's gone wrong for him. There was never any stardust on him.

One final thought - centre often seems the most attritional position on the pitch. Exeter were missing Hill and Slade for large swathes of last season - I'm sure someone will miss a fair amount of the next too. The log jam will probably clear and if it doesn't, any injury to Steenson takes Slade out, too many injuries on the wing and Whitten goes out... it looks bad, but it'll probably work out.

 

[WaterboySA]

I see Oupa Mohoje's been named captain of the SA side. Don't know how I feel about that, to be honest.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I see Oupa Mohoje's been named captain of the SA side. Don't know how I feel about that, to be honest.

Ag, what does it matter?

He's one of the very few guys that has been captain of a local SR team in that squad. He's unlikely to be called up to the Springboks, so it's a "safe" selection to make as he'll most likely start both games against the Saxons.

 

[WaterboySA]

I think it matters a lot. His SR captain is in the squad with him. And I can't see this as Johan Ackerman making the decision.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think it matters a lot. His SR captain is in the squad with him. And I can't see this as Johan Ackerman making the decision.

Perhaps.

But if you look at the squad there's only 4 players that have been captain at SR level:

Nizam Carr
Teboho Mohoje
Edgar Marutlule
Francois Venter

Now out of that 4, Mohoje is the least likely of them all to be called up to the boks in case of an injury. Venter could even join up with the Boks as early as today if Serfontein needs to get an operation on his wrist.

 

[WaterboySA]

Surely you can't base your choice on that, lol? Mohoje wasn't even a sure starting choice for the Cheetas?

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest, I see SA Rugby's hand in this.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Surely you can't base your choice on that, lol? Mohoje wasn't even a sure starting choice for the Cheetas?

Maybe, but he's one of the very few that has a Springbok cap, and is one of the most experienced players in the group. There is the possibility of this being a political selection, but I'm going to look past that as I think Mohoje is a good choice.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Maybe, but he's one of the very few that has a Springbok cap, and is one of the most experienced players in the group. There is the possibility of this being a political selection, but I'm going to look past that as I think Mohoje is a good choice.

My thought is there's a shade of politics involved here but the above is pretty much my feeling on the matter as well especially since we might see Venter called up to the Bokke, or Mnisi? Now that will be a bigget point of discussion IMO.

 

[WaterboySA]

Anyone know what happened to Burger Odendaal? Someone to think of if his injury is past(for the A team when Francois gets moved up)

 

[TRF_heineken]

Anyone know what happened to Burger Odendaal? Someone to think of if his injury is past(for the A team when Francois gets moved up)

He was injured. The Bulls declared him fit for the Lions game, but decided to give him another week's rest.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

If Francois Venter moves up to the main squad I'd actually rather have Rohan Janse van Rensburg than Burger Odendaal. Wouldn't mind overly much but IMO RJvR has been more 'wow' even if Odendaal has been knocking on the door for longer. If he were'nt injured Harold Vorster also in with a shout. Mnisi, Jordaan and Andre Esterhuizen also solid options. Bit odd having a raft of talented centers going around but no scrumhalves.

 

[saulan]

Saw TRF_Peat requesting Heineken post about requesting info about the released players and I thought I would also describe each player released, can't have too much info:
Hooker Scarra Ntubeni- Been in the Springbok setup before but has never been earned a cap. Not our best hooker and will probably play second fiddle to Malcolm Marx. Can't throw into a line out but quite a dynamic little guy.
flank Sikhumbuzo Notshe - He is quite young, but is shaping up at the moment to look like a future Springbok. Can play all loose forward positions. Isn't much of a fetcher but is quite a potent runner of the ball who, unlike many of our runners, will rather look for the gap then bash up the man. That doesn't mean he can't run over some players. At 1.91 he is also useful in the line out.
scrumhalf Nic Groom - He has been better this season but is nothing spectacular. He will be solid enough, but don't expect too much flair or anything special. Is utilised for box kicks quite a bit.
flyhalf Garth April - He kinda disappeared and then reappeared with a shot. Played Craven week and then I think played some Varsity Cup and then went to club rugby. This season the Sharks picked him up and he has performed really well in the few matches he has played. He isn't our youngest flyhalf (although decent at 24) but he lacks experience in Super Rugby and is still quite raw. This tour will probably be used to see how he stacks up to quality opposition.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I made a match thread for the first match, so feel free to comment there about the match and the teams if you want.