England Saxons to tour South Africa in June

[Every Time Ref]

It may not be a essential, but it's not a mere bonus either. A winger who can't catch George North really has to be bringing the goods elsewhere for me because we've got a fair few guys who could.

Can't see the controversy in saying Nowell's a bit slow for an international winger. He is, surely we've all noticed it. Don't think its outrageous to suggest Ben Youngs is faster than him either, Ben Youngs is really bloody quick.

I'd agree that Nowell's probably not quite up to being a top international winger and I'd rather see him at 15 or 13. But then, I agree with the same statement when made about a great many of the England team, and he deserves his place for now. Hope he either improves or someone relieves him of it though.

The least we can say I think is that he needs someone to really wrestle that shirt from him, and I think that's a great thing.

Also, great backup and bench player to have, who has proved he's more than capable at the top level

 

[j'nuh]

Are people really telling me that if they were Eddie Jones they wouldn't hold this against Ashton?

Not even in the slightest.

In fact, from someone who is very family-orientated, skipping on the Saxons would make a mildly good personal impression on me, and playing for the Saxons would make a mildly bad personal impression on me in this situation. Fathers who put their family before work resonate with me more than those who will miss major events in their child and family's life because of work commitments. Whilst it's a personal decision for Ashton to make, if I were Jones, I'd definitely reassure Ashton that it wouldn't have a personal effect on his chances, although it may have a professional effect. (I won't ignore what the other wingers on the tour do in a gesture towards Ashton, although I find it highly unlikely I'd be overawed by any kind of performance in the Saxons tbf.)

For me, the only acceptable reason to miss a major event in your family's life is because you have to attend a major event in your personal life. Ashton has a moral duty to his family to be there, which I feel to be absolved only if it comes into conflict with a moral duty to himself and his own life. If this was a chance to kick back into life his own international career, it's such a profound personal achievement, that I can understand why Ashton would miss the birth. Otherwise, he ought to be there and Saxons be damned.

To put it another way, if a man misses the birth of his child because he was attending an interview for a job he wanted, fair dos. If he misses the birth of his child to play golf and network with his bosses purely on the off-chance that it angles him towards the job he wanted, I don't really see that to be a good enough reason to miss the birth of a child, and if I was his partner, I'd be frustrated (to put it lightly).

 

[FLOBALOB]

Not even in the slightest.

In fact, from someone who is very family-orientated, skipping on the Saxons would make a mildly good personal impression on me, and playing for the Saxons would make a mildly bad personal impression on me in this situation. Fathers who put their family before work resonate with me more than those who will miss major events in their child and family's life because of work commitments. Whilst it's a personal decision for Ashton to make, if I were Jones, I'd definitely reassure Ashton that it wouldn't have a personal effect on his chances, although it may have a professional effect. (I won't ignore what the other wingers on the tour do in a gesture towards Ashton, although I find it highly unlikely I'd be overawed by any kind of performance in the Saxons tbf.)

For me, the only acceptable reason to miss a major event in your family's life is because you have to attend a major event in your personal life. Ashton has a moral duty to his family to be there, which I feel to be absolved only if it comes into conflict with a moral duty to himself and his own life. If this was a chance to kick back into life his own international career, it's such a profound personal achievement, that I can understand why Ashton would miss the birth. Otherwise, he ought to be there and Saxons be damned.

To put it another way, if a man misses the birth of his child because he was attending an interview for a job he wanted, fair dos. If he misses the birth of his child to play golf and network with his bosses purely on the off-chance that it angles him towards the job he wanted, I don't really see that to be a good enough reason to miss the birth of a child, and if I was his partner, I'd be frustrated (to put it lightly).

Apparently the babys due at the end of june, so he could have both, played golf and got home in plenty of time before the babys born.
Either being at the birth or his rugby career would be his priority,whether thats first team squad or saxons it shouldnt really make any difference.
This baby nonsense is clearly an excuse not to be demeaned by playing for saxons.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think May would be worth looking at again. He has suffered lots of problems internationally for a while but he actually looked like he was beginning to improve before his injury. The main issue was him and Brown never communicated which made our back 3 a mess, there was no trust. If he performs well for Glos and improves other aspects of his game, May and Watson on the wings with Nowell at 15 would be a very nice back 3. A lot of assumptions about Mays improvements continuing though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Chris jones twitter
Eddie Jones to @bbc5live on Ashton situation. "Players need to decide how desperate they are to play for England."


Damn, sounds like that is that for Ashton TBH.

 

[McTallshort]

Apparently the babys due at the end of june, so he could have both, played golf and got home in plenty of time before the babys born.
Either being at the birth or his rugby career would be his priority,whether thats first team squad or saxons it shouldnt really make any difference.
This baby nonsense is clearly an excuse not to be demeaned by playing for saxons.

And how many of your kids arrived on there due date? And how would your missus have felt if you buggered off to South Africa while she was in the last month of her pregnancy?

 

[Which Tyler]

Sorry Flobalob.

I rather suspect that Flobalob's wife didn't chose to marry an international sportsman who takes great pride, and makes many sacrifices to represent his country.
Last month should be fine for Joe Bloggs (barring requirements to put a nursery together etc); let alone international sportsman; last week would be cutting it tight though.

 

[McTallshort]

Sorry Flobalob.

I rather suspect that Flobalob's wife didn't chose to marry an international sportsman who takes great pride, and makes many sacrifices to represent his country.
Last month should be fine for Joe Bloggs (barring requirements to put a nursery together etc); let alone international sportsman; last week would be cutting it tight though.

So your missus would be fine with you going on a pretty meaningless Saxons tour to SA during the last 4 *weeks of pregnancy? No mine wouldn't either. I didn't realize his wife was due and take my hat off to the lad for making the decision he did.

 

[Which Tyler]

Last 4 weeks? she's been fine for me to be out of the country.
Last 2 weeks was a different matter.
But again, my wife didn't marry an international sportsman with known commitments and great pride in representing his country.

Of course, some people look at actual data - the chances of giving birth (naturally, non-induced) within a week of the due date is 64.5%.

Bear in mind - I do not know baby-Ashton's due date (or even necessarily if there really is a baby on the way); and do not know how much Chris was or wasn't willing to sacrifice to be there at the birth; and my comments are not a comment on him or his wife.
All we do know is that the final match on June 17; so probably return home June 19; earlier if personally necessary; flight takes 15 hours.
England's full tour has the final match on June 25; so probably return home June 27; earlier if personally necessary; flight takes 24 hours.

 

[McTallshort]

Sorry he should be there, if it was a world Cup then OK but a pointless Saxons tour on the end of a very congested season? No sorry I wouldn't do it and I don't expect him too

 

[saulan]

All we do know is that the final match on June 17; so probably return home June 19; earlier if personally necessary; flight takes 15 hours.

11 hour flight.

 

[Raggs]

If he was willing to go on a longer tour that almost certainly would have covered the birth then there were plans in place at home to cover it.

First birth nearly always takes a long time. He could have told ej he wants to tour but will need to be on the first plane back if she goes into labour.

They probably could have timed the due date a bit better too, with 11 months of the year being at home. If my wife and i hadnt succeeded when we did were going to stop trying for 3-4 months to avoid the hot summer.

 

[ncurd]

Some first births are quite quick though, I don't know of anyone who would findo it acceptable to be out the country until labor starts....

I think where I work simply wouldn't ask anyone to be out the country close to a due date. If it's your regular job to be out the country there are usually ways around it with some planning and foresight.

As for Ashton if she's due around the time of or just after the tour fair enough. If she's not it's not good enough for someone with international aspirations.

 

[Peat]

Some first births are quite quick though, I don't know of anyone who would findo it acceptable to be out the country until labor starts....

I do! Chris Ashton. He'd have probably gone if it was the Australia tour. Despite all the added logistical difficulties.

I suppose we can now have another round of whether the Saxons tour is important, but I think that was Eddie Jones saying "Oh yes it is". Don't have to agree with him, but its fairly definitive on what happens to Ashton.

Have to say - this is the first Saxons tour to somewhere decent I can remember and I seem to recall Jones was instrumental in pushing for it. On second thoughts, whether its pointless remains to be seen (beyond probably ending Ashton's international career that is).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Has anyone actually heard anything official about Ashton and his wife expecting around the tour date?

 

[Peat]

End of month was what was in the articles with the McCall quotes.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Found the article, interesting that McCall is saying they are expecting end of June, and the Tour is 10-17th June (Lets say they arrive a week before the first game so 3rd). (which i would call mid june).

I could understand if it was a mid june due date but the birth could be a nearly a full 2 weeks after the tour.

 

[FLOBALOB]

And how many of your kids arrived on there due date? And how would your missus have felt if you buggered off to South Africa while she was in the last month of her pregnancy?

My wife would be very happy for me to be representing my country , knowing that when she married me she might have to make sacrifices. Especially if she knew there was a very good chance id be back in plenty of time for the birth.

I would assume Ashtons missus would feel exactly the same as if hed been picked to go to Australia, but would that have stopped him going.?

 

[Mumbles119]

I have never been a fan of Ashton personally, for both rugby reasons and behavioural reasons.

However, regardless of the person involved: if he needs to be at home during the latter stages of his wife's first pregnancy, then that is perfectly fine. For all we know there could be complications happening making it a difficult pregnancy.

But, if he was intending to tour Aus and turned down SA, then that is a different motivation.

I hope it is more the former motivation he had than the latter, and will wait until things reveal them self as fact or not in the future.

 

[Which Tyler]

I have never been a fan of Ashton personally, for both rugby reasons and behavioural reasons.

However, regardless of the person involved: if he needs to be at home during the latter stages of his wife's first pregnancy, then that is perfectly fine. For all we know there could be complications happening making it a difficult pregnancy.

But, if he was intending to tour Aus and turned down SA, then that is a different motivation.

I hope it is more the former motivation he had than the latter, and will wait until things reveal them self as fact or not in the future.