[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[Peat]

He's not saying he thinks he's good enough, he's saying there is clearly something going on in that Lancaster and co rate him very very highly for a number of reasons and that he has the sterotypical rugby player physique - kind of like Lewsey in 1998/99, and that rating him is not on the basis of his reputation in league but a ton of immeasurables.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. I'm not sure what would have been unclear on that post.

I would also point out that any conversation about what they see in Burgess compared to his competitors is probably more realistic if we're talking about Burrell, Barritt et al.

However, to touch on a crucial point; I'm guessing what they want from all players this tournament is someone who they can trust to keep their head if they're on the field in the final in the 79th minute in a one point game. No amount of ability will make them pick a player they cannot trust in that scenario for whatever reason (although they've some funny ideas of who to trust) while a player who they trust implicitly can get away with a lot of sins. Big game experience, mental toughness and leadership abilities are clearly key to that. If Burgess did triumph over Itoje and Ewers for a slot in the squad, that is probably why. But he probably didn't.

Note - I am only guessing. But what I'm not guessing about is Lancaster and Farrell really liking Burgess for some reason. I can't help but feel it makes more sense to try and decipher what that reason is than it does to simply assume they're insane/incompetent for not agreeing with us.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just on a different tangent: I watched the England vs Australia game from the AIs again, and Barritt had a belter.
I know he was playing at 13, but he was running great lines off Ford, and was his usual self in defence.
I would have him as first choice 12 going into the RWC

 

[TheSaffycen]

Just on a different tangent: I watched the England vs Australia game from the AIs again, and Barritt had a belter.
I know he was playing at 13, but he was running great lines off Ford, and was his usual self in defence.
I would have him as first choice 12 going into the RWC

He is the safest choice, as he always delivers a certain level of performance.
I would still like to see Burrell moved to 13 and have Eastmond used at 12 with both Joseph and Burrell. If they see Slade at 12/13 use him with Farrell. Too me the best combos too try are-
Farrell-Slade-Joseph
Ford-Eastmond-Joseph
Farrell-Eastmond-Slade
I don't think that Barritt and Joseph need to be tried because they both seem smart enough to play together off the bat, of course there is no harm in trying them together in the warm ups but I think that Slade/Eastmond need more exposure.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Looks like the media has stopped the Armitage hype train for now.

Which is nice.

TBH I can't see any team Lancaster picks now as winning the WC.

We're doomed.

 

[Patchey]

Looks like the media has stopped the Armitage hype train for now.

Which is nice.

TBH I can't see any team Lancaster picks now as winning the WC.

We're doomed.

We could have Steve Hansen at the helm and we probably wouldn't win.

Somewhere there is a world beating team on English player waiting to be assembled. But it isn't ready yet.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We could have Steve Hansen at the helm and we probably wouldn't win.

Somewhere there is a world beating team on English player waiting to be assembled. But it isn't ready yet.

Bring in Nick Fury!

2019 IMO is currently our best shot in terms of all round talent coming in BUT will the coach in charge have the nerve to select said players in between I can't see Lancaster doing it.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Bring in Nick Fury!

2019 IMO is currently our best shot in terms of all round talent coming in BUT will the coach in charge have the nerve to select said players in between I can't see Lancaster doing it.

I don't really agree with this. You look at players when they are young and assume they will keep improving growing and becoming consistent.

A great example would be Haskell, he was destined for the 6 shirt for England for years to come when he was younger but just hasn't developed.

The same could be said about any of the young players people have pinned their hope on.

Just because they are young it doesn't mean they are going to consistently develop, just look what happened to lamb, gherety and others.

I am hopeful about this year really, our squad has grown loads and if our backline settles we could be lethal!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't really agree with this. You look at players when they are young and assume they will keep improving growing and becoming consistent.

A great example would be Haskell, he was destined for the 6 shirt for England for years to come when he was younger but just hasn't developed.

The same could be said about any of the young players people have pinned their hope on.

Just because they are young it doesn't mean they are going to consistently develop, just look what happened to lamb, gherety and others.

I am hopeful about this year really, our squad has grown loads and if our backline settles we could be lethal!

Nope I'm looking at players who are young and already playing at a high level at AP level who IMO need to be given a shot @ International level not on judging on there potential.

The likes of Joesph, Kitchener, Launchbury, Itojie, Kvesic, Marler, Youngs, Ford, etc. are all playing at a high level in the AP (Some already experienced international players) and will still be at prime age for the 2019 RWC.

Yes some players can hit a rough patch or get injured but I'm not basing on the fact that they could be internationals I'm basing it on the fact that they could be included in England now and it would look quite good.

A team of
1) Marler, 2) George, 3) Cole
4) Launchbury, 5) Lawes
6) Itojie, 7) Kvesic, 8) Vunipola
9) Youngs, 10) Ford
12) Manu, 13) Joesph
11) Nowell, 14) May/Watson, 15) Pennell

16) LCD, 17) Auterac, 18) Brookes
19) Kitchener, 20) Morgan
21) Robson,22) Farrell, 23) Daly/Watson

And TBh I wouldn't be upset to see that team now (lacking experience @2 and 12. But give some of those players 4 years and IMO 2019 is def a WC we should be winning.

 

[TobesHodges]

TBH I can't see any team Lancaster picks now as winning the WC.

We're doomed.

Oh Tigs, don't be so English! We can beat anyone on our day! Have some faith!

 

[ncurd]

Oh Tigs, don't be so English! We can beat anyone on our day! Have some faith!

I thought we were suppose to be arrogant Englishmen in our superiority over all sides in all facets of the game.

What stereotype am I suppose to conform to?

 

[Patchey]

I though we were suppose to arrogant Englishmen in our superiority over all sides in all facets of the game.

What stereotype am I suppose to conform to?

As long as you quietly conform to something, you'll be fitting the stereotype.

 

[TobesHodges]

I though we were suppose to arrogant Englishmen in our superiority over all sides in all facets of the game.

What stereotype am I suppose to conform to?

haha True,

Though considering the FRENCH got to the last final and then went on and out played New Zealand for 60 minutes and were unlucky for it, shows that anything really can happen.. I do think these lads have it in them, they show us time and time again how well they can play.. I have faith!

 

[Every Time Ref]

As long as you quietly conform to something, you'll be fitting the stereotype.

While moaning about he quality of my team I'm sipping tea and subjugating a Celt, does that count?

 

[Crapspray]

I'm basing it on the fact that they could be included in England now and it would look quite good.

A team of
1) Marler, 2) George, 3) Cole
4) Launchbury, 5) Lawes
6) Itojie, 7) Kvesic, 8) Vunipola
9) Youngs, 10) Ford
12) Manu, 13) Joesph
11) Nowell, 14) May/Watson, 15) Pennell

16) LCD, 17) Auterac, 18) Brookes
19) Kitchener, 20) Morgan
21) Robson,22) Farrell, 23) Daly/Watson

Well, that XV is not far off what we'll probably see. All bar Auterac have played in an England shirt in the last four years for the Saxons or EPS.

1. Marler (unless Corbisiero regains form)
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Vunipola/Morgan

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12. Barritt (Manu unavailable anyway)
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. Webber
17. Vunipola
18. Wilson
19. Parling
20. Morgan/Vunipola
21. Wigglesworth
22. Farrell
23. ??? Probably Burrell, knowing Lancaster, with Joseph covering Wing and Watson Fullback.

Which is not half-bad. At home it stands a good chance of topping the group (cue arrogance accusations), which means they dodge serious opposition until Ireland/France in the semis. Also, the Uruguay game is last in the pool so, presuming they do beat Wales and the Wallabies, the first XV will have a week's rest before the quarter-finals.

As much as I would have loved to have seen Itoje in the warmups, he and Ewers have time on their side. Judge the Six Nations next year for Lancaster's long-term plans. If he's still coach, that is.

 

[TobesHodges]

I would have kruis and jaime George in the team somewhere but everyone disagrees with me

 

[stus768]

Nope I'm looking at players who are young and already playing at a high level at AP level who IMO need to be given a shot @ International level not on judging on there potential.

The likes of Joesph, Kitchener, Launchbury, Itojie, Kvesic, Marler, Youngs, Ford, etc. are all playing at a high level in the AP (Some already experienced international players) and will still be at prime age for the 2019 RWC.

Yes some players can hit a rough patch or get injured but I'm not basing on the fact that they could be internationals I'm basing it on the fact that they could be included in England now and it would look quite good.

A team of
1) Marler, 2) George, 3) Cole
4) Launchbury, 5) Lawes
6) Itojie, 7) Kvesic, 8) Vunipola
9) Youngs, 10) Ford
12) Manu, 13) Joesph
11) Nowell, 14) May/Watson, 15) Pennell

16) LCD, 17) Auterac, 18) Brookes
19) Kitchener, 20) Morgan
21) Robson,22) Farrell, 23) Daly/Watson

And TBh I wouldn't be upset to see that team now (lacking experience @2 and 12. But give some of those players 4 years and IMO 2019 is def a WC we should be winning.

Tigsman. When do you think Kitchener will get a chance? A lot of competition in the second row.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I'm beginning to suspect that Lancaster doesn't actually want a six to play at six. He might not know it yet, but he will end up going for 4. Attwood 5. Lawes 6. Launchbury, or maybe 4. Launchbury 5. Lawes 6. Kruis.

You heard it here first.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tigsman. When do you think Kitchener will get a chance? A lot of competition in the second row.

Would place money on him taking Parlings spot next season after the World Cup.

IMO he was the form AP lock this season. He is big fast and runs the lineout (highest lineout takes in the AP).

 

[yaboyjj]

I'm still puzzled why everyone is putting Watson in the team- I'd have Roko, Yarde and May over him every day of the week.
I think it's very possible we might see a Vunipola, Robshaw Morgan back row at some point- and frankly it's no worse than Haskell playing at 6, who offers a poor lineout option/speed to breakdown anyway- tbh I could probably make a similar case for Launch over Wood.

 

[j'nuh]

If your pinch of salt regards salt journalism makes you think all interviews are more dictated by the interviewer, you did not take enough salt. Sports journalists rely on access to do their job and the RFU control access. Journalists with annoying opinions end up with less access.

Lancaster has never said just enough to do his PR responsibilities and if you think he's been vague about what he thinks about Burgess I struggle to believe you've actually been paying attention - not to mention that every word has been backed up by action to date which you've ignored.

You are wrong about this. I don't know whether he's going, but if you think it's not a serious possibility and that Lancaster isn't interested in it, then it seems to be because you're sticking your fingers in your ears and going "La-la-la".

I don't particularly want him to go. None of us particularly want him to go with most of us thinking it'd be idiocy. But it's under prolonged discussion for a reason.

Why would England see it as an annoying opinion? It adds speculation and hype. It adds pressure to the incumbents to train harder. They don't win anything by making it clear they aren't going to pick certain players. In fact, it can't be good for a player's mentality to tell the press they aren't going to make the final squad. The same effect occurs if you deliberately avoid such questions.

Lancaster said he was 80% decided on his WC squad last Autumn. I would be surprised if he had any more than one or two undecided players at this point. Do we really think, that with that level of desire for continuity, that he'd pick an unproven player with no test match experience, an unknown level of ability, for the most important event of Lancaster's reign, in the smallest squad he'll have picked to date? Lancaster's even talked about him as a centre/flanker hybrid. Would Lancaster experiment like that so close to the WC?