[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

[TobesHodges]

1. Marler 2.T.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan 9.B.Youngs 10.Ford 11.Watson 12.Barritt 13.Joseph 14.Nowell 15.Brown

That will be the Starting team, if no injuries.
I would like SL to be bold and put Jaime George in because I wince every time Tom Youngs lines the ball up.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

1. Marler 2.T.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan 9.B.Youngs 10.Ford 11.Watson 12.Barritt 13.Joseph 14.Nowell 15.Brown

That will be the Starting team, if no injuries.
I would like SL to be bold and put Jaime George in because I wince every time Tom Youngs lines the ball up.

I'd say Wood, Morgan, Watson and Barritt aren't certain, but pretty damn close.

Tom Youngs' throwing has worried me too, but I think the problem will be far less pronounced. Thinking about the 2014 6N's lineout, it was so good due to that axis of Hartley, Lawes and Wood, all from Northampton, whereas Youngs had fewer of his club teammates with him (I can only think of Parling). I'm hoping this will matter less due to the amount of time they're spending with each other pre-RWC.

 

[Maverick1987]

I think Youngs weakness at the line out is overplayed . Imo it's more the timing between him and the rest of the line out that's not right . They will have had a good few months together by then they should be able to sort it out ..

 

[TobesHodges]

I don't think it's overplayed, it is a weakness, but don't get me wrong he has always been our best hooker outside the line out by a country mile his work rate is immense and is up there with Strauss and Coles in attack..

 

[Maverick1987]

I don't think it's overplayed, it is a weakness, but don't get me wrong he has always been our best hooker outside the line out by a country mile his work rate is immense and is up there with Strauss and Coles in attack..

Ok let me put it this way it's not a problem when Youngs has Parling as the main line out option and caller so why has it become a problem since Lawes took the calling duties ?

By the way I'm not saying it's Lawes fault just saying there is a misunderstanding/communication problem between them somewhere ...

 

[Raggs]

Perhaps in the way that Lawes sometimes asks Youngs to throw somewhere other than the front? Hopefully things will have improved for the RWC.

Vunipola is not losing his shirt to Morgan that easily, he was immense in the 6N, more impressive than Morgan in the AIs.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Conspiracy time.

After the fiasco that was England's campaign in 2011, Lancaster needs to take the pressure off his players. Burgess being in the squad is taking most of the attention. He will be brought to the WC but sent home shortly before the first game for being "tired and emotional". All the other players have barely been mentioned in the press and are light and fresh for the cup.

 

[Peat]

Why would England see it as an annoying opinion? It adds speculation and hype. It adds pressure to the incumbents to train harder. They don't win anything by making it clear they aren't going to pick certain players. In fact, it can't be good for a player's mentality to tell the press they aren't going to make the final squad. The same effect occurs if you deliberately avoid such questions.

Lancaster said he was 80% decided on his WC squad last Autumn. I would be surprised if he had any more than one or two undecided players at this point. Do we really think, that with that level of desire for continuity, that he'd pick an unproven player with no test match experience, an unknown level of ability, for the most important event of Lancaster's reign, in the smallest squad he'll have picked to date? Lancaster's even talked about him as a centre/flanker hybrid. Would Lancaster experiment like that so close to the WC?

Well, he's currently thinking about doing it, so yeah. Burgess will almost definitely get warm-up time and the decision will be made on that.

And it's clearly not an annoying opinion, because it's everywhere. The point is journalists are not completely independent and any level of cynicism aimed at what's being said to who needs to account for that.

 

[TobesHodges]

Honestly though I would love to see burgess come into his own when he gets the opportunity, he is a physical specimen..

 

[ZeroTwo]

Honestly though I would love to see burgess come into his own when he gets the opportunity, he is a physical specimen..

Rather see Will Fraser come back from injury and make the flanker shirt his own. Him, Kvesic and Itoje would do.

Anyway England have plenty of white orcs on steroids, I would go for Eastmond in the centres. Not seen anyone light up a rugby pitch in a white shirt like him since Billy Whiz.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Rather see Will Fraser come back from injury and make the flanker shirt his own. Him, Kvesic and Itoje would do.

Anyway England have plenty of white orcs on steroids, I would go for Eastmond in the centres. Not seen anyone light up a rugby pitch in a white shirt like him since Billy Whiz.

You are the New Zealand press in disguise and I claim my £5. I've come back round to Barritt as my preferred inside centre tbh, though I wonder if Kyle Eastmond gets any boost from his versatility for the World Cup? Can't he play every back position but scrum-half?

 

[ncurd]

Eastmond = Too Small for international rugby

At least that's the excuse I keep hearing...

 

[Peat]

You are the New Zealand press in disguise and I claim my £5. I've come back round to Barritt as my preferred inside centre tbh, though I wonder if Kyle Eastmond gets any boost from his versatility for the World Cup? Can't he play every back position but scrum-half?

Not only would I consider Eastmond's claim to versatility very tenuous (never played FB iirc, only 3 games at 13, maybe 40 minutes at 10?), it also seems to be a trait that Lancaster has no particular time for; Tait not in the squad, Daly already cut. He does like shuffling players around positions (all 12s can play 13, all full-backs can play wing) but very rarely are they shuffled to a position they've logged serious club time at.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Rather see Will Fraser come back from injury and make the flanker shirt his own. Him, Kvesic and Itoje would do.

Anyway England have plenty of white orcs on steroids, I would go for Eastmond in the centres. Not seen anyone light up a rugby pitch in a white shirt like him since Billy Whiz.

Look I'm a Saracens supporter as well, but my god you love them a bit too much ! Fraser is a very good player, but I doubt he will ever have a run of more than 10 games without another surgery.

Not only would I consider Eastmond's claim to versatility very tenuous (never played FB iirc, only 3 games at 13, maybe 40 minutes at 10?), it also seems to be a trait that Lancaster has no particular time for; Tait not in the squad, Daly already cut. He does like shuffling players around positions (all 12s can play 13, all full-backs can play wing) but very rarely are they shuffled to a position they've logged serious club time at.

Agreed. He has a specific role in each position then he pushes a player in there who's skill set might work well. So every flanker can play 6/7, as you said 12/13 though that may change with Joseph as no one else can play his style in the centres. Could Eastmond be pushed to 13 though ? Fast and can play make ?

 

[goodNumber10]

Eastmond = Too Small for international rugby

At least that's the excuse I keep hearing...

He's not too small he's just not effective enough in defence....giteau for example is a small guy but he stops people on the gainline, Toomua also.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Agreed. He has a specific role in each position then he pushes a player in there who's skill set might work well. So every flanker can play 6/7, as you said 12/13 though that may change with Joseph as no one else can play his style in the centres. Could Eastmond be pushed to 13 though ? Fast and can play make ?

I'd love to see Eastmond at 13 for England- it's intriguing! But I can't see it happening with Joseph. Without Joseph I'd like to hear more about it, but it's far more likely that Barritt will play there if Joseph's rested (or Burrell).

And if it's true that Stuart Lancaster has set ideas for each position -negating the advantages of versatility- isn't it worrying that he considers the skill-sets of blindside flankers and inside centres interchangeable? (re Burgess)

 

[TheSaffycen]

He's not too small he's just not effective enough in defence....giteau for example is a small guy but he stops people on the gainline, Toomua also.

Do you think it would be negated in the 13 channel ? I know it's traditionally a harder channel to defend but he would be very well suited drifting, his technique isn't poor either.

 

[Peat]

Agreed. He has a specific role in each position then he pushes a player in there who's skill set might work well. So every flanker can play 6/7, as you said 12/13 though that may change with Joseph as no one else can play his style in the centres. Could Eastmond be pushed to 13 though ? Fast and can play make ?

It's an interesting question that one - whether Lancaster will start looking for like for like replacements for Joseph. Ditching Daly arguably says no but a) It's early days and his position may change and b) Slade could arguably fit the mould, so there's still someone involved.

Eastmond has the attacking attributes on paper. His size would be more exposed in defence though that far out, which is why Bath abandoned the idea (or so I've been told).

edit: By exposed I mean that, while he would get to do more side on tackles than head on, he'd also be involved in more one in one scenarios, which is where he's vulnerable to either a) losing a lot of ground or b) allowing an easy offload.

And if it's true that Stuart Lancaster has set ideas for each position -negating the advantages of versatility- isn't it worrying that he considers the skill-sets of blindside flankers and inside centres interchangeable? (re Burgess)

In fairness, I think what's happening at Inside Centre is less about what he sees as the platonic ideal of the position, and more a desperate rush to find someone who he thinks is not a liability in the position.

He is also open to changing his mind to what works in positions when presented with a player he likes. Joseph didn't fit his 13 model but still got the nod.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

In fairness, I think what's happening at Inside Centre is less about what he sees as the platonic ideal of the position, and more a desperate rush to find someone who he thinks is not a liability in the position.

He is also open to changing his mind to what works in positions when presented with a player he likes. Joseph didn't fit his 13 model but still got the nod.

I was being facetious more than anything, the reality is probably that Burgess has qualities wide ranging enough that he might be able to play either (or should I say both) position(s).
The more I think about it, the more I come back to Barritt. Burrell is... Burrell, Twelvetrees would be perfect but has zero consistency, Eastmond's defence doesn't fit with Ford, Burgess isn't ready yet (and he's not a centre) imo, Slade would be perfect but is inexperienced. There's a chance that Farrell goes well at 12 in the warmups, in which case I'd consider him.
Post-RWC I want Slade in, Twelvetrees to get a bloody consistency other than that of cold pea soup and we'll see what happens with that rugby league convert guy, whatever his name is.

As for Lancaster looking for centres to play in Joseph's style, I'd guess not, as once Tuilagi's back he's got to be included somehow (when he's on form, anyway) and Jonathon and Manu are... different.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Look I'm a Saracens supporter as well, but my god you love them a bit too much ! Fraser is a very good player, but I doubt he will ever have a run of more than 10 games without another surgery.

Hahah! Think he is in with a shout! He'll come back this season with zero injuries and boss the AP.

On the Eastmond front, I thought he was treated harshly after the NZ tour. Thought he was the most dangerous man in a white shirt, and his size was always going to be tricky against NZ but I don't see an England centre who doesn't have a flaw NZ could play.

As Orange said though having Eastmond-Joseph would be just too unbalanced.