England EPS + Saxons

[j'nuh]

EDIT:

England EPS:

Props - Corbisiero, Vunipola, Marler, Cole, Wilson
Hookers - Hartley, Youngs
Locks - Lawes, Launchbury, Parling
Backrow - Clark, Croft, Johnson, Haskell, Robshaw, Wood, Morgan, Waldrom
Scrum-half - Care, Youngs, Dickson
Fly-half - Farrell, Flood, Burns
Centers - Barritt, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Joseph
OBs - Foden, Goode, Brown, Ashton, Strettle

England Saxons:

Props - Mullan, Catt, Thomas, Doran-Jones, Knight
Hookers - Gray, Paice
Locks - Botha, Deacon, Kitchener, Slater, Robson, Palmer
Backrow - Dowson, Fraser, Kvesic, Vunipola
Scrum-half - Simpson, Wigglesworth
Fly-half - Ford
Center - Allen, Turner-Hall, Lowe, Tomkins, Daly
OBs - May, Biggs, Monye, Wade, Sharples, Eastmond, Abendanon

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can't see many changes being made to the EPS, just a few of the injury ones from the Autumn made permanent (Launchbury, Corbisiero, Burns for example).

No idea about the Saxons, but if Dave Seymour doesn't make it then that's just ****. Last squad was pretty good - good mix of players on the cusp of England (Burns, Launchbury etc.) with less experienced players too (May, Miller, Kvesic).
Considering Saxons haven't had a game since last Six Nations it'll probably stay pretty much the same, I reckon - bar injured players.

 

[smb64]

They were calling on the Rugby club last night to include Billy Vunipola - wouldn't be a bad replacement for Waldrum to be honest seeing as he is out of form and favor.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd have him in Saxons, but not EPS. Replace Waldrom with Fearns or Haskell, and start Billy in all of the Saxons games to see where he's at.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

 

[psychic duck]

Vunipola needs to improve his all round game before starting for England imo.

I've seen him play recently against Bayonne and Sale, he did quite a few impressive things, but the hype brigade need to consider that he made quite a few errors as well as the impressive parts.

 

[McTallshort]

Anyone think Morgan is only there due to lack of No8s? He was fast tracked into the England Test team but other than one carry against France he has hardly impressed.

 

[Peat]

Anyone think Morgan is only there due to lack of No8s? He was fast tracked into the England Test team but other than one carry against France he has hardly impressed.

He was fast tracked due to having the best form of available 8s and was good, if unfit, in the Six Nations. Was even unfitter in SA due to being rushed back from injury, was good in the Autumn. I'm a fan.

 

[McTallshort]

He was fast tracked due to having the best form of available 8s and was good, if unfit, in the Six Nations. Was even unfitter in SA due to being rushed back from injury, was good in the Autumn. I'm a fan.

Didnt he get dropped in SA for Waldrum? Like I said he was fast tracked but the only reason I think he is there is due to lack of competion how would you compare him to other 8s in Ireland/Wales/France etc

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He was fast tracked due to having the best form of available 8s and was good, if unfit, in the Six Nations. Was even unfitter in SA due to being rushed back from injury, was good in the Autumn. I'm a fan.

+1
I'm a big fan of Morgan - may have been fast tracked but it was for the right reasons.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Morgan with Heaslip are probably the best options for Lions 8.

Big fan of Morgan, your standard and solid 8. Would love to have him at 8 for Wales.

 

[McTallshort]

Same question to you Olyy, how far away would he be from starting at 8 for the other 5 nations?

 

[Draggs]

Morgan with Heaslip are probably the best options for Lions 8.

Big fan of Morgan, your standard and solid 8.

Heaslip? If we need Irish wings I would go with Bowe.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Same question to you Olyy, how far away would he be from starting at 8 for the other 5 nations?

Hard to say - he's an out and out 8, so that counts against him in some respects.
Think he'd make the extended squad for all nations. If he'd have chosen Wales I reckon he'd have overtaken Faletau for first choice. Probably make the matchday for Scotland and Italy (Denton and Parisse are both quality 8s) - maybe matchday for Ireland, depending on who's injured etc.
No idea about France, haven't been keeping up to date with their squad to be honest (not really paid much attention to them since the Six Nations).

 

[j'nuh]

It's true we're lacking in 8s though. I don't see what Waldrom offers that Morgan doesn't - they're the same kind of player doing the same kind of thing in the same position, but Morgan is younger and better and can now easily last a full 80. But I'd like to have faith in Morgan to be the only 8 in the squad and to mostly play full 80s. If he's playing well in a game, then he stays on. If he isn't, then a plan B is needed and Waldrom doesn't seem a sensible swap anyway. So an openside on the bench so we could potentially play "dual opensides" as a plan B.

My backrow: Robshaw, Savage, Wood, Armitage (he seems like a no-go for Lancaster)/Fraser, Morgan.

Saxons and potential call-ups: Croft, Haskell, Vunipola, Waldrom, Kvesic, Seymour.

As far as Morgan not impressing, I think that Shaun Edwards said in one of Gloucester's pre-matches that 90% of Wales' missed tackles vs. England was on one of Morgan or Tuilagi. Morgan is probably the best ball carrier England have, an important attacking threat. To be a perfect 8, he only needs to work on his tackling in terms of driving players backwards. He wasn't at 100% for some games because of injuries, but imo he's impressed enough to be the obvious 8 for England. I suspect Heaslip and Faletau are ahead of him, but Morgan would be the next best 8 for both Wales and Ireland. He'd be my 8 for Scotland but not necessarily better than Denton.

EDIT: Who should be the fourth second row?:
Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, ?

 

[Draggs]

Hard to say - he's an out and out 8, so that counts against him in some respects.
Think he'd make the extended squad for all nations. If he'd have chosen Wales I reckon he'd have overtaken Faletau for first choice. Probably make the matchday for Scotland and Italy (Denton and Parisse are both quality 8s) - maybe matchday for Ireland, depending on who's injured etc.
No idea about France, haven't been keeping up to date with their squad to be honest (not really paid much attention to them since the Six Nations).

I know you dislike him, but not a chance. Simply because Faletau fits what we want from an eight, tackling, tackling, tackling.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I know you dislike him, but not a chance. Simply because Faletau fits what we want from an eight, tackling, tackling, tackling.

Gatland chased hard for Morgan and I still believe that Morgan is what Wales need at 8.

 

[Draggs]

Gatland chased hard for Morgan and I still believe that Morgan is what Wales need at 8.

I think he would have been a good option as well. Our need for Morgan was less of him and more of us having seemingly no other eights coming through.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

My backrow: Robshaw, Savage, Wood, Armitage (he seems like a no-go for Lancaster)/Fraser, Morgan.

Saxons and potential call-ups: Croft, Haskell, Vunipola, Waldrom, Kvesic, Seymour.
EDIT: Who should be the fourth second row?:
Launchbury, Lawes, Parling, ?

No room for Fearns?
He's versatile (though best at 8/6) like Haskell but hits/carries harder and gives away 1% of the penalties . I am a big fan of Haskell though, and both should be looked at before Waldrom, imo.

Hard to say, about lock. Hopefully not Botha, anyway!
Robson? Very good player for Quins, but is he what we want/need for England? Looking at the Saxons, to see who might be on the radar, the locks are Deacon, Gaskell and Kitchener - none of whom I'd have for England. Stick with Tom Palmer, I reckon, and see who comes to the front over the rest of the season/summer.

 

[Peat]

Didnt he get dropped in SA for Waldrum? Like I said he was fast tracked but the only reason I think he is there is due to lack of competion how would you compare him to other 8s in Ireland/Wales/France etc

Yes, he was dropped on account of having little impact due to being really unfit.

Compare him to other teams

Italy - Haha, no, but then Parisse is a ledge. Morgan would be the reserve though, or even maybe tasked as a 6, although Zanni is no mean player
France - No, Picamoles is the finished version of Morgan
Ireland - Hmm, maybe. Heaslip hasn't been in great form for a while, SOB doesn't play that much at 8, think I'd rather have Morgan than Wilson. 50-50 call, depends who has the form
Wales - He mightn't start ahead of Faletau but they definitely need someone of his standard to put the pressure on and raise stands. And he might start ahead of Faletau at that.
Scotland - Probably not with Brown and Denton both available.

There's no denying there is a lack of competition going on with Morgan, but he earned his call playing for Scarlets, and has performed for most of his caps.

 

[j'nuh]

I had Fearns in mind, but with 6 players already involved... and I wanted a couple of specialist 8s to cover for the fact that I have only Morgan in the EPS. Vunipola included for the future, Waldrom included in case we need to call up an 8 for Morgan and Vunipola isn't ready. Would be happy to add Fearns at the expense of a lock though, or even Haskell.