England EPS + Saxons

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't say you need more than one specialist 8 - especially when you'd have (hypothetically) Fearns and/or Haskell who both have a lot of experience at 8.



Anyone watching the Warriors Tigers game?
Andy Goode for England/Lions 10!

 

[Peat]

Hard to say, about lock. Hopefully not Botha, anyway!
Robson? Very good player for Quins, but is he what we want/need for England? Looking at the Saxons, to see who might be on the radar, the locks are Deacon, Gaskell and Kitchener - none of whom I'd have for England. Stick with Tom Palmer, I reckon, and see who comes to the front over the rest of the season/summer.

Yup

 

[psychic duck]

I know you dislike him, but not a chance. Simply because Faletau fits what we want from an eight, tackling, tackling, tackling.

Plus he is much better at lineouts, rucks, and general work rate around the field. And also unlike Morgan he is very fit and he can offer himself for 80 minutes.

 

[j'nuh]

Plus he is much better at lineouts, rucks, and general work rate around the field. And also unlike Morgan he is very fit and he can offer himself for 80 minutes.

Myth. Morgan has been fit enough for full 80s for a very long time. He's played the full 80 in 10 of the 11 matches he's started for Gloucester. The match he didn't play the full 80 was because he got a yellow card.

Also, fair enough on the rest. It doesn't matter that Faletau is better in the lineout, because England wouldn't use him there anyway. (Happy with Wood and Parling as the main jumpers, Lawes and Launchbury as secondary ones.) Rucking and work rate is quite the role of a 6. I think Faletau does play very much like a second 6. Might work for Wales, but I'd rather have the extra firepower in Morgan and a bit more variety in the backrow.

 

[Patchey]

I am the only one keen for Matt Tait to make a comeback?

Pretty sure the Saxons will change very little and the EPS will only be the obvious stuff from the Autumn. Did they ever bring anyone into the squad when Hodgson retired? Because if not there is surely a 'spare' spot in the squad to bring someone in without kicking an existing player out.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've always been a massive fan of Tait - playing 15, ironically where they kept trying to shift him so he could play for England, is going to harm his England chances though.
Then again he's got international experience on the wing and at 13 too. Give it a while yet, he could well implode again.

They're bound to have brought someone in for Charlie, but I can't think who. Joseph? Or was he in for Turner-Hall? I think Goode was already there. Hmm

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

We played Tom Wood at 8 when we took Morgon off for the last england games, Haskell went to 6 which is strange considering i've never seen Wood play 8 before for Saints?

I do think we need another specialist 8 as back up in the squad and i wouldn't really mind who? Theres still a lack of deoth there for england.

What about 12trees call up for allen or something like that?

 

[j'nuh]

We'll be taking 4 centers this time, to make room for Burns at fly-half. Two are Barritt and Tuilagi. Joseph will presumably go. Which leaves one spot open - will be either 12T or Allen.

I'm going to try a full squad - brackets as second choice to replace injuries/suspension/not considering France:

Props - Corbisiero (Wood), Vunipola, Marler, Cole, Wilson
Hookers - Hartley, Gray, Youngs
Locks - Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Palmer
Backrow - Robshaw, Savage, Wood, Armitage (Fraser), Morgan
Scrum-halves - Care, Youngs, Dickson
Fly-halves - Farrell, Burns, Flood (beg Hodgson)
Centers - Barritt, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Joseph
Outside backs - Foden, Goode, Sharples, Ashton, ?

Can't pick that last wing. Wade? Monye? Biggs? Was hoping May to be available, but he won't have played enough rugby. Probably go with Wade, I want him to get a small amount of experience.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm not sure whether Corbisiero will be considered - I don't think he should be, anyway. Been out injured so much, he's going to completely ruin his knee(s?) if he comes back early again, and straight in to test rugby.
Needs a good amount of time off to heal fully.

 

[Patchey]

The Squad(s):

England Senior Elite Player Squad (33)

Forwards (18)

Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (London Wasps)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Backs (15)

Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons Elite Player Squad (32)

Forwards (17)

Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Will Fraser (Saracens)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
Shaun Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
David Paice (London Irish)
Tom Palmer (London Wasps)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)

Backs (15)

Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Lowe (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Christian Wade (London Wasps)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

 

[psychic duck]

Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)

Nick Easter is better than Waldrom imo.

Waldrom hasn't been on great form at the minute from what I've seen, I would say Vunipola is probably better even though I don't think Vunipola is as good as hyped anyway. Ernst Joubert also is better although he isn't English, but neither is Waldrom. Still could be worse, at least they haven't selected Crane.

Based in France, Narraway would have been better as well, as would Steffon Armitage.

David Wilson (Bath Rugby)

This name seems to make the EPS squad by default every time for several seasons now, however from what I've seen he looks very average. Is he really your second best tighthead?

Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Isn't he like third choice at Leicester behind Chuter and Hawkins?

Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens)

I thought England had learnt their lesson that not every League convert fast tracked into England squads would turn out to be Jason Robinson after the less than successful experiments with Henry Paul, Andy Farrell and Lesley Vainikolo.

Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Will Fraser (Saracens)

Who?

How has Fraser kept the very impressive Luke Wallace (Harlequins) out of the Saxons? Is he really better than Seymour either?

Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)

A prop who can't even keep Buckley out the Sale team can make the Saxons?

 

[j'nuh]

Calum Clark
Tom Croft
Chris Robshaw
James Haskell
Tom Johnson
Courtney Lawes
Joe Launchbury

Reckon Lancaster's got 6 covered?

EDIT: And then no 6s in the Saxons! :lol: EDIT 2: Well, apart from Dowson... might have missed him. I'm glad that it looks like we won't be calling up a 6 to the EPS for a while!

Not many complaints tbh. Would have preferred Fraser in over one of the 6s. Not sure what Haskell, Croft or Johnson have done to deserve being picked, but can see why Lancaster's done it.

Only real complaint - three fullbacks, two wingers... <_< guess that means 11. Foden 14. Ashton 15. Goode/Brown is on the cards. Maybe it means that Joseph is being taken as a winger.

But Twelvetrees in is a very pleasant surprise, and this is close to the best that England have.

Saxons is very exciting. Potential dual-openside: 6. Fraser 7. Kvesic 8. Vunipola. It's like glimpsing into the future. I reckon that backrow isn't too far off the best that the EPS can put out. No Savage though is disappointing. Also, dat backline. Maybe not as professional as the EPS, but more fun to watch!:

9. Simpson 10. Ford 11. Wade 12. Allen 13. May 14. Sharples 15. Abendanon
21. Wigglesworth 22. Eastmond 23. Daly

EDIT: The Saxons is very strange on second look. Only one fly-half suggests Eastmond might be being considered as a replacement one for the Saxons. Depressing to think that Ford is the back-up for England. Great potential, but I wouldn't have him near the England 10 jersey. Also, to think Lancaster doesn't seem to like wingers in the EPS, then names 6 wingers in the Saxons!

 

[j'nuh]

Nick Easter is better than Waldrom imo.

I think Easter would be the first name in the XV if he was like 25. re: France players, Lancaster's been pretty clear about only picking France players when absolutely necessary. I don't agree with him but at least he's being very consistent in his message, and it will do some good in pressuring these players to come back if they have England aspirations.

This name seems to make the EPS squad by default every time for several seasons now, however from what I've seen he looks very average. Is he really your second best tighthead?

Wilson has gone through a vast improvement this season (come to think of it, so has Matt Stevens). I wonder whether it's partly because in the past he was seen as "a prop which could play on both sides", whereas now that the 2-prop benches have come in, he's a tighthead.

Isn't he like third choice at Leicester behind Chuter and Hawkins?

Wouldn't say so anymore. His success in the AIs catapulted him ahead of them.

I thought England had learnt their lesson that not every League convert fast tracked into England squads would turn out to be Jason Robinson after the less than successful experiments with Henry Paul, Andy Farrell and Lesley Vainikolo.

Eastmond is looking very promising though, although I agree he needs more time. Tomkins... I'm disappointed he's in ahead of Henry Trinder, but Trinder has been injured for the majority of the season so far.

Who?

How has Fraser kept the very impressive Luke Wallace (Harlequins) out of the Saxons? Is he really better than Seymour either?

Fraser has been fantastic! I've been very impressed with him when I've seen the Sarries (and it's rare I admire a Saracens player!), and I'd have called for him in the EPS. He's the next best openside after Armitage and Wood imo, but young too.

A prop who can't even keep Buckley out the Sale team can make the Saxons?

21 years old, clearly a selection with the future in mind (which is a good call I think). He wouldn't be called up to the EPS because Mullan is the next in line.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A prop who can't even keep Buckley out the Sale team can make the Saxons?

Thomas is actually first choice over Buckley, however the weird thing over his selection is that I literally can't remember the last time he properly played.
I think he's had about 20mins of game time this season - last time he played a whole game was probably last Easter or so :huh:
He's been injured, on and off, for about a year.


Don't like Clark being there. Good player and on very good form, but if you intentionally break a guys arm you shouldn't be playing for England less than a year later.
Rest is pretty predictable.

Saxons looks good - Eastmond's a good call, however I don't think I'd have had him there for another season or more. Tomkins isn't - very very overrated.

 

[McTallshort]

Doesnt matter how well Easter plays he will never be picked while SL is running the show. Whatever really happened during the World cup it looks like Easter and Tindell really pi$$ed a few people off, I am guessing it was some of the younger players who Lancaster knows well or even Graham Rowntree but the way its looking, Easter will never play for England again.

 

[j'nuh]

It might also be because he'll be 30-hundred by the time of the next world cup.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How many changes could Lancaster make to the EPS?
Maybe Waldrom is just there because they couldn't get rid of him? He's not even first choice at his club, I can't see him getting used much for England. Morgan overtook him during the Six Nations and then Clark, Johnson and Haskell are all better bench options.
All of our backrowers have varying levels of experience at 8, so if Morgan got injured during a match and had to go off we don't need an 8 on the bench - which is all Waldrom is (oh wait, I forgot, according to Cock he's an openside too )


I've no qualms with Easter being omitted not playing for England again - he's on very good form for Quins, but how many times has he been on form for them and then brought none of it to international level?


I have a problem with Croft being there as well, to be honest. Think it's a stupid decision, for his safety more than anything else. He's literally just back from a potentially career-ending/life-changing injury. He's been told he's not allowed to play two consecutive weekends, can't train as much as others etc. for fear of him damaging his neck again - yet he's apparently fit enough for international?
He's very good, but would give him until at least the summer. How often have we seen players rushed back into international duty only for them to be out for X months straight after.

 

[McTallshort]

Remember that happening to a certain England fly half now playing at Sale....

 

[j'nuh]

Croft's inclusion's probably more to do with thinking towards the second half of 2013. Lancaster can't change the squad past injuries for the next year. Judging by the abundance of 6s and lack of 7s, Lancaster probably doesn't put too much faith in the need for a fetcher. Disappointing.

 

[McTallshort]

Robshaw is as good a fetcher as anyone.