England EPS + Saxons

[j'nuh]

Fraser would have had many more if he played for Worcester. Fraser imo has been probably the biggest find in the Premiership of the last few months - one of the form English flankers and has developed fast this season.

Mind you, so has Kvesic.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Botha? Really?

My thoughts exactly.
I think I'd even prefer Louis Deacon.

 

[McTallshort]

What about Robson instead of Botha?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not really in the same mould as Clark - if Parling went down then I wouldn't be adverse to seeing him in there.
Then again I'd take pretty much any EQP lock over Bothal.

The options from the Saxons were: Botha, Deacon, Kitchener, Robson and Palmer. They definitely went for the worst of a relatively uninspiring bunch.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Not really in the same mould as Clark - if Parling went down then I wouldn't be adverse to seeing him in there.
Then again I'd take pretty much any EQP lock over Bothal.

The options from the Saxons were: Botha, Deacon, Kitchener, Robson and Palmer. They definitely went for the worst of a relatively uninspiring bunch.

You can say that again. Wasn't Ed Slater there too? I've been pretty impressed wth him this season.

It's odd, I swear the England Saxons backs are all young talented future stars, whereas (with exceptions* ) lots of the forwards are just old and a bit... meh. All filler, no killer.

*Isn't it a bit sad that I feel I have to write this disclaimer...^_^

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's odd, I swear the England Saxons backs are all young talented future stars, whereas (with exceptions* ) lots of the forwards are just old and a bit... meh. All filler, no killer.

Agreed.
We have a number of young forwards in the EPS though, which is good - don't see what benefit we get having the likes of Botha, Deacon et al. in the Saxons though. They've been in the EPS and done enough to be dropped. Why not give the chance to someone else? We're not going to learn anything putting that lot out.

 

[j'nuh]

Huh, I'm not getting the no young players in the forwards thing. Seems mostly young to me. Kvesic up until recently, Vunipola, Fraser, Slater, Kitchener, Knight, Thomas, Gray all 24 and younger. + late call-ups to Brookes, Gibson and Kruis. Mullan, Robson, PDJ all have a bit of potential still in them and 27 or younger. Only Palmer, Botha, Deacon and Dowson in the over 30s. Palmer deserves to be there regardless of his age, and there aren't many options in the second row. A bit odd that Garvey isn't in, and Attwood probably offers more going forward than the oldies. Dowson is the oddest selection for me. Plenty of 6s in the main squad, so he isn't really needed as injury cover, and no Tom Savage?

Also, what the frig has happened with Ben Spencer? Looked promising last year, getting 0 game time this year. Is he still developing well, does he need to move etc?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Spencer definitely needs to move.
He's not going to get ahead of Wiggy or de Kock anytime soon.
Could do worse than a move to Wasps, who have Joe Simpson and not much else - or Bath, as they're losing Claasens at the end of the year.

 

[Teh Mite]

Lord only knows what blackmail material wigglesworth has in his possession to remain ahead of Spencer in the pecking order. It can't be for the quality of his work.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Huh, I'm not getting the no young players in the forwards thing. Seems mostly young to me. Kvesic up until recently, Vunipola, Fraser, Slater, Kitchener, Knight, Thomas, Gray all 24 and younger. + late call-ups to Brookes, Gibson and Kruis. Mullan, Robson, PDJ all have a bit of potential still in them and 27 or younger. Only Palmer, Botha, Deacon and Dowson in the over 30s. Palmer deserves to be there regardless of his age, and there aren't many options in the second row. A bit odd that Garvey isn't in, and Attwood probably offers more going forward than the oldies. Dowson is the oddest selection for me. Plenty of 6s in the main squad, so he isn't really needed as injury cover, and no Tom Savage?

Also, what the frig has happened with Ben Spencer? Looked promising last year, getting 0 game time this year. Is he still developing well, does he need to move etc?

You're right, I didn't just mean old though, I also meant to emphasie the mehhh ness of some of the Saxons forwards. I know, maybe I'm being melodramatic but whereas most of the backs excite me theres names amongst the forwards who as Olyy is basically are saying are just the best of an uninspiring bunch, or players who are there because they will eventually be good.

 

[mattykay69]

Gloucester have signed Kvesic from Worcester for next season.Graham Rowntree said that if he wants to play for England he needs to leave Worcester for a more established team.
He has signed for Gloucester for a less cash than he was offered by Worcester.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think that's such a BS reason by Rowntree.
He's saying that to be selected he has to leave a lower-mid table team where he's first choice and an important member of the side, to go to an upper-mid table side where he has to compete with an already established/important member/leader in the side, in Hazell.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Think that's such a BS reason by Rowntree.
He's saying that to be selected he has to leave a lower-mid table team where he's first choice and an important member of the side, to go to an upper-mid table side where he has to compete with an already established/important member/leader in the side, in Hazell.

This exactly: if Kvesics career doesn't continue to move forward at the rate it should be than Rowntree has a lot to answer for. Twelvetreees moved away from the big boys Leicester and look what it got him: a place in the EPS! Loads of players make a name for themselves at weaker clubs.... Brussow at the Cheeters, Ferris at what used to be a weaker Ulster side.

If it's that Rowntree doesn't rate the coaches at Worcester then fair enough I guess, but to me Worcester look a very well drilled side with lots of potential.

 

[04perryo]

I swear to god every coach have this opinion that worcester are a shite team, Lewis moody rowntree peter richards the list goes on i personally believe kvesic would have got to the EPS if he stayed at Worcester as long as the England coaches don't pick him because he plays for Worcester (which probably would happen). Its a shame we lost a genuine 7 who in my mind cannot be replaced, i just hope he gets played at gloucester

 

[SelimNiai]

Gloucester have signed Kvesic from Worcester for next season.Graham Rowntree said that if he wants to play for England he needs to leave Worcester for a more established team.
He has signed for Gloucester for a less cash than he was offered by Worcester.

And that sums up whats wrong with the English domestic game, at least at the top level. This whole "established" sides can be swapped for "our favourite teams" if a player is good enough then he should play weather he plays for Sarries or Worcester.

 

[Peat]

To offer a defence of Rowntree (which I'm not sure if I believe or not)

At Wuss, Kvesic will play a lot of first team rugby but it will be AP and Amlin.

At a bigger club, Kvesic will play HEC. He will play AP play-offs. He might even get HEC knock-out, although that's not Glaws (yet... they're building there).

Those big games are fantastic development for international rugby, exposure to those games can be the difference between making it and not making it. Nothing wrong with competing with Hazell for a place either, would Cole be the player he is if he hadn't spent his formative years wrestling for the big game starting spot with Castro?

They clearly rate Kvesic. He wouldn't be in the EPS if they didn't. But if they feel he just needs to take that extra 5pc of the way to being an international and that the best way for that to happen is for him to start getting those big games, then fair enough. It seems fairly logical.

Now... how much of this do I believe... have to say, he's not certain to be getting those games for Glaws.

 

[04perryo]

Well if referees could ref a game decently for worcester kvesic would be playing a lot of HC games

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No he wouldn't.
Worcester didn't qualify for the HC last season through their own shortcomings, not poor refereeing.
It's this season that they've been at the end of some dodgy decisions.

 

[Peat]

Crap reffing decisions are a part of life. Take a spoonful of concrete and harden up.

 

[RedWhiteGreen]

Silly hypothetical I know, but Kvesic was born in Germany, right? Would him playing for England U20s make him ineligible to play for Germany, should he wish to do so? I think it's the top two sides, as England has the Saxons they count as the A side but Wales don't so they nominate their U20s.