England 6 Nation squad 2024

[BPM]

You could also add Ben Earl to that list of viable 6s if with someone like T Willis at 8.

On what basis? If numbers are unimportant and you're saying back row positions are interchangeable, then Earl is a viable 6. I see him as a player who is equally effective at 7 and 8. He doesn't offer what I would want/expect from a blindside though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

6. Curry, 7. Earl, 8. Willis, 20. CCS could be something special

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Underhill and Earl did well in the 6N and are kind of inked in unless or until they lose form, stop gelling or rivals make a compelling case to replace them. You can argue similarly for CCS on the bench.

6 is more up for grabs. But I don't think Earl, Curry and Underhill - in whatever shirts - is right regardless of individual merits.

Times headline that Mercer's close to a recall. Reading the article it's more Skivington bigging him up but also saying that he's in the England picture and not been ruled out.

 

[LIONSxv]

Could Mercer play as six? He would definitely need to hit more rucks, but has the height/athletic abilities to be a genuine line out option.
His carrying, offloading goes without question

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Being required to hit rucks etc takes away from his carrying ability though imo

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Could Mercer play as six? He would definitely need to hit more rucks, but has the height/athletic abilities to be a genuine line out option.
His carrying, offloading goes without question

If keeping Underhill and Earl, Mercer's 8, Earl's 7 and Underhill's 6 with an ability to swap around if situation demands. Again, looks nice on paper.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Honestly don't think it looks great on paper tbh

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Honestly don't think it looks great on paper tbh

yeah, at that point you might as well play the currys at lock.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Honestly don't think it looks great on paper tbh

Not saying it's my total fantasy back row but apart from a bit of bulk and a lock type line out option, what's it lacking?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Not saying it's my total fantasy back row but apart from a bit of bulk and a lock type line out option, what's it lacking?

Thinking this, if earl or mercer is required to do more grunt work, that should be more than offset by having another good carrier in the side. If we go for grabs up rugby, I could see real and mercer swapping between grunt work and the more flashy stuff as required. Underhill will always do the grunt work and seems to relish it.

 

[Jimbo]

On what basis? If numbers are unimportant and you're saying back row positions are interchangeable, then Earl is a viable 6. I see him as a player who is equally effective at 7 and 8. He doesn't offer what I would want/expect from a blindside though.

he is indeed, I would simply rather play a back rower in the back row than a lock was my point, if the balance is right I don't think the numbers are hugely important.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Chessum underhill Earl worked because of the mix of players. I do think CCS could come in for Chessum but to be honest I've not watched enough of Mercer to know what would balance him. He's obviously a great player but what would work best with him?

Would CCS Earl Mercer work? That's an all action backrow but would anyone do the underhill grunt work? Could Earl pick that up if asked to play 7 rather than 8?

Also with Billy going next season I wonder if else might get more club game time at 8 or will T Willis come back in there?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Chessum underhill Earl worked because of the mix of players. I do think CCS could come in for Chessum but to be honest I've not watched enough of Mercer to know what would balance him. He's obviously a great player but what would work best with him?

Would CCS Earl Mercer work? That's an all action backrow but would anyone do the underhill grunt work? Could Earl pick that up if asked to play 7 rather than 8?

Also with Billy going next season I wonder if else might get more club game time at 8 or will T Willis come back in there?

Although they move at very different speeds Mercer reminds me of Dean Richards in the sense of having an uncanny ability to be in the right place at the right time - rugby intelligence. Clearly an excellent attacking player but also busy in defence and a reasonable line out option.

Balance him with a traditional 7 - Curry / Earl and a hard hitting 6 - Underhill / CCS / Martin and it would be fine.

I don't think either Earl or Mercer are show ponies, but having 2 in the pack who can give genuine go forward momentum would be a great thing - and also enable us to power up the front 5 (should we happen to unearth some….).

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Yeah … this is an interesting point. Of those that get mentioned, Ted Hill is more or less the only genuine 6. Perhaps Jack Kenningham if he can get back to fitness and from.

I do feel like CCS could be a better 6 than 8 in time and if he stays at Quins, that's very possibly the route he'll take.

This is also why I think Carnduff may be a more interesting prospect than Pollock from the U20 crop.

Why would CCS be a better 6 than 8? The strength of CCS is ball carrying which suits an 8. The main job of a 6 is to tackle.

 

[Booboobang]

Lawes made 6 work because he suited 6 and was given time.

It just depends on what we want as a 6, a workhorse or perhaps more dynamic style.

There are plenty of 6's in international that Chessum can replicate potentially.

But the thing is he's prob gonna be a lock at Tigers and I feel that he will develop a great partnership with Martin. Honestly longer term I wished Borthwick went with Itoje at 6 more than Chessum

This is one of those times where I think central contracts will impact. Obviously I would prefer a club to do what is best for them but if the RFU is paying a pretty penny towards contracts and easing the financial burden on teh club could easily see them saying, look he needs to be a 6 most of the time, or putting pressure on the player to tell the club thats where he wants to play and develop. Wonder if we see clubs saying, nah we dont need the financial help we would rather have full control of the player.

 

[Booboobang]

I'm not really advocating that they get used more than they should at their age. For example, Baxter has been introduced relatively slowly. I'd probably regard this as his true breakthrough season. In total he's now up to 42 appearances in total but at an average of 35mins per game. It probably would have been less if Kerrod hadn't been out injured.

Overall, England's challenge is that the last couple of generations of prop (particularly at tighthead) haven't amounted to much. We have very few in the 25-30 bracket and those we do have a pretty underwhelming. There are a few that were highly rated who haven't hit the heights expected of them, like Marcus Street at Exeter for example. We could really do with a few of those starting to bloom. That would prevent a 'too much too young' scenario for AOF and co.

I do worry though that there is a link between those two things though. We had some really promising props, todd and hayes stick out who are still very young, but they were introduced to international rugby very early and it looks like it has stunted their development rather than helped it. As of right now I am edgign on let the players develop properly and use the camps they have set up as this generation looks special. The old guard should hold for a year to see where the chips lay with their development in a proffesional system.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Why would CCS be a better 6 than 8? The strength of CCS is ball carrying which suits an 8. The main job of a 6 is to tackle.

He screams 6 to me. Good ball carrier, but his tackling is immense. Some crazy numbers from the first 3? six nations games he came on

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I do worry though that there is a link between those two things though. We had some really promising props, todd and hayes stick out who are still very young, but they were introduced to international rugby very early and it looks like it has stunted their development rather than helped it. As of right now I am edgign on let the players develop properly and use the camps they have set up as this generation looks special. The old guard should hold for a year to see where the chips lay with their development in a proffesional system.

Paul Hill another.

I wonder whether these experiences did hold them back or whether 'good' simply got conflated with 'good for age' / potential.

No prop should be in the England conversation unless or until they have regularly marmalised Prem / European opponents in scrums for a couple of years.

Part of the issue has been the emphasis on all round game at the expense of scrummaging, which seemingly is being rectified although resembling the turning circle of an oil tanker.

He screams 6 to me. Good ball carrier, but his tackling is immense. Some crazy numbers from the first 3? six nations games he came on

Inclined to agree although I think he can be a real option in either although unlikely to be as much of a 'footballer' as Mercer or Earl.

 

[BPM]

Paul Hill another.

I wonder whether these experiences did hold them back or whether 'good' simply got conflated with 'good for age' / potential.

No prop should be in the England conversation unless or until they have regularly marmalised Prem / European opponents in scrums for a couple of years.

Part of the issue has been the emphasis on all round game at the expense of scrummaging, which seemingly is being rectified although resembling the turning circle of an oil tanker.



Inclined to agree although I think he can be a real option in either although unlikely to be as much of a 'footballer' as Mercer or Earl.

I'd say that's a large part of the problem. For a good 5yrs or so we decided we wanted our props to be 'mobile' with an all court game at the expense of the set piece.

With that said, there still aren't many you could say were unfairly overlooked. Collier and Schonert maybe, but I can't really think of anyone else. Brookes should really have been Cole's successor but his form tanked at the point he should have been peaking.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Brookes should really have been Cole's successor but his form tanked at the point he should have been peaking.

Properly big unit able to play both sides. Real coulda shoulda been.

Last seen in an England shirt in 2016 but still only 33. Only 1 start in his 16 caps.