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England 6 Nation squad 2024

As much as Fasogbon and Sela look very good at age grade they have very little senior experience to speak of right now. I'm not even sure Opoku-Fordjour has featured in more than 10 first team games as yet has he?
At their ages, they shouldn't be getting that much - I'm actually concerned about AOF on that basis - not because of his current game time, but because of the temptation to give him too much too soon.
For some strange reason, players want to play, and coaches want their best players on the pitch.
For some strange reason, neither coaches nor 19 year old players are thinking too much about the state of their 40/50/60... year old body.


I'll direct to here again: https://www.therugbyforum.com/threa...-rugby-should-young-props-hookers-play.36973/
 
The turning point for this campaign – maybe for Borthwick's tenure, too – came in the aftermath of the error strewn defeat by Scotland. The squad promised "unbelievably honest" conversations when they gathered in York for the second fallow week and it is understood that some senior players, even some of Borthwick's staff, challenged him to allow more time to be spent working on attack in training. You could see the absence of it in the clunkiness at Murrayfield, the handling errors, the unfamiliarity and the lack of cohesion in what England were doing.

The focus up to that point had been to drill into the players Felix Jones's new defensive system but for the two-week buildup to facing Ireland the attack was polished and the results were evident at Twickenham. Against France, having withstood a first-half onslaught, it was similarly electric as they fought back from 16-3 down.

"Our mindset since Scotland has been to really go at teams with ball in hand," the fly‑half George Ford said. "Be a threat, ask questions, fire shots, be that attacking team, be on the front foot a lot more. I think you've seen that the last two weeks. We had to front up after that [Scotland] game. We had to make a choice. It was off the back of that game when we had to have a few honest conversations about things and decide what team we want to be."
 
I love a player revolt

Sorry, I mean I love a frank and honest conversation between players and coaches....

even some of Borthwick's staff, challenged him to allow more time to be spent working on attack in training
Sounds like the Wigglesworth rumours after the RWC were true, then
 
I wondered if SB had learned from his mistakes or not in the change of gameplan, guess he didn't and the players forced his hand.

I'm glad the players felt comfortable enough to tell him but they really shouldn't have to.
 
Just checking that this is the same George Ford who a couple of years ago regarded the ball as toxic and reckoned you were better off playing without it?
 
While playing for England under EJ and then SB?

Yeah, wonder if there's a theme there....
 
I wondered if SB had learned from his mistakes or not in the change of gameplan, guess he didn't and the players forced his hand.

I'm glad the players felt comfortable enough to tell him but they really shouldn't have to.

The game plan should be a dialogue between senior players and coaches regardless.

Lack of leadership in the playing group has seemingly been an issue for some time and if some have finally grown a pair and SB's listening then all good. Although we're talking attack, wonder how much is down to F Jones - his creds mean that his views should automatically carry weight and if SB is seem to be listening to him, perhaps other coaches / players have latched on to that.

Early stages, but if SB is listening and prepared to change his mind then he definitely gets credit for that.

While playing for England under EJ and then SB?

Yeah, wonder if there's a theme there....

Point being is to ignore pretty much everything players say - in good times or bad - as it's invariably just the party line at that moment in time.
 
At their ages, they shouldn't be getting that much - I'm actually concerned about AOF on that basis - not because of his current game time, but because of the temptation to give him too much too soon.
For some strange reason, players want to play, and coaches want their best players on the pitch.
For some strange reason, neither coaches nor 19 year old players are thinking too much about the state of their 40/50/60... year old body.


I'll direct to here again: https://www.therugbyforum.com/threa...-rugby-should-young-props-hookers-play.36973/
I'm not really advocating that they get used more than they should at their age. For example, Baxter has been introduced relatively slowly. I'd probably regard this as his true breakthrough season. In total he's now up to 42 appearances in total but at an average of 35mins per game. It probably would have been less if Kerrod hadn't been out injured.

Overall, England's challenge is that the last couple of generations of prop (particularly at tighthead) haven't amounted to much. We have very few in the 25-30 bracket and those we do have a pretty underwhelming. There are a few that were highly rated who haven't hit the heights expected of them, like Marcus Street at Exeter for example. We could really do with a few of those starting to bloom. That would prevent a 'too much too young' scenario for AOF and co.
 
Just watched the analysis and for Freemans try it was insane workrate by him. Good carry, 1 phase and he is not just back on his feet but sprinted 20m accross the pitch to get that ball at pace, Daly was on the wing but from a standing start he wasnt guarenteed.

We need Freeman to stay as a winger IMO as he pops up in the centre, opposite wings and has an insane workrate, i genuinely believe this gives lawrence the licence to not just play in the IC position but roam aswell.

Furbank and IFW both have a very high workrate too in attack so im really looking forward to this team developing.
 
Tbh I feel it's best all round. We need to develop a long term centre partnership and he's either too fragile or not having the impact he used to. He's a fantastic player and at his best he was close to unstoppable, but those days are gone and we have options at centre that we need to develop. I hope Bayonne works out for him.
 
Tbh I feel it's best all round. We need to develop a long term centre partnership and he's either too fragile or not having the impact he used to. He's a fantastic player and at his best he was close to unstoppable, but those days are gone and we have options at centre that we need to develop. I hope Bayonne works out for him.

Yep.

Sounds like he was a good egg to have around as well. Although some good memories, through no fault of his own, overriding feeling is one of what might have been.
 
That's been known since November, tbf - just a load of clickbait journalists have taken his interview on the Sale youtube channel today and sensationalised it for headlines

"TOM CURRY MIGHT NEED METAL HIP" - no, that was on option that was floated in November and wasn't needed.
He had successful surgery, is currently rehabbing, and there's no indication he won't make a full recovery as it stands

Papers reporting that he's back running with a slim chance of playing again before the end of the season.

Great to hear. He's apparently been ferocious in his rehabbing and I'm sure Sharks / Eng have done the right thing by him but that's seemingly a rapid recovery. Thinking about the long term, in many ways I hope he just writes off this season even if he *could* play a game or 2.
 
Yeah, Sanderson said if we make either final (Europe or Prem) he's due back around then

So we won't see him until next season, then!
I wonder if a summer off would prolong his career overall. He could still then aim for the November tests and the 6 nations to stake a claim for the lions.

It feels these days that players maybe coke back slightly too soon but that might be my perception as I don't see what goes on behind the scenes.
 
What did people make of Underhill in the 6N? Only a couple of highlight reel moments but overall I felt he was pretty effective. Still find it baffling that he wasn't in the original RWC squad.
 
Yeah, I thought he was good - what you'd expect from him really, big tackling and a few nice breakdown moments
Well deserving of the shirt atm, though I'd be looking to get Pepper some gametime over the summer if possible (Japan game? Do we have any mid-week or Barbarian games?)

My preferred flank partnership is still a Curry/Underhill one - looks like Ben is just in squads to make up the numbers (in hindsight should've just had Pepper in the 6N squad as BC was never gonna get any game time despite his crazily good stats, which you would've though SB would like, and Pepper would learn more from the environment), so hoping TC comes back from injury well and we can pair them up again
 
What did people make of Underhill in the 6N? Only a couple of highlight reel moments but overall I felt he was pretty effective. Still find it baffling that he wasn't in the original RWC squad.
He tackled hard as we expect and can really take the momentum out of a side. His carrying has also improved. At the moment I'd say it's his shirt to lose. Only concern really is about his concussions.
 

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